We Are The University

ArtsEd Faculty Meeting (May 2025)

Thu May 22 2025 12:00:00 GMT+1200 (New Zealand Standard Time)

AI Summary of Faculty Meeting (May 2025)

Dean’s Report

Deputy Dean (Camilla Highfield): "Thank you all for being here today. We’ve had a lot of positive developments since January, including international engagements, strong semester two enrolments, and creative partnerships like the Aotearoa Arts Fair and Auckland Writers Festival..."

(Summary of achievements, awards, and acknowledgements follows.)

Discussion on School Restructure Proposal

Cathy (Chair): "This won’t be a surprise—you’ve all seen the proposed model for the new school structure. After months of consultation, we’ve arrived at this recommendation. The purpose of today is to gather final thoughts before the Dean presents it to the VC."

Key Points:

Neil Curtis (Media & Screen): "I support this model, but we need to focus on faculty identity. Right now, we’re a faculty in name only—no shared culture or values yet."

Maxine Lewis (Classics & Ancient History): "Thank you for listening to feedback. This model reflects the concerns of those most affected."

Helen Dixon (Learning Development): "How will we manage schools of vastly different sizes?"

Cathy: "We’ve seen this work elsewhere (e.g., Science). The priority was disciplinary fit, not uniform size."

Jay (Social Practice): "What about professional staff resourcing? Bigger schools shouldn’t mean more work for the same people."

Claire (Professional Staff Rep): "Group services will be allocated proportionally to academic FTE. No reductions planned."

Patrick (Skeptical on Process): "Why no vote? Voting legitimizes decisions."

Cathy: "Voting isn’t the only democratic tool. We’ve had extensive consultation. The Dean is ultimately accountable."

Yvonne (Māori Studies): "Size doesn’t equate to legitimacy. Te Wānanga o Waipapa is deeply rooted here—its value is recognized."

Nicholas (Dance Studies): "Voting provides clarity. Without it, assumptions fill the void."

Caroline (Pacific Studies): "We endorse this model. Inter-school collaboration is key—we don’t need to be in the same school to work together."

Marcia (History): "How does the government budget affect this?"

Cathy: "Resilience is the goal. A robust structure helps us weather funding challenges."

Next Steps (Mark Barrow, Academic Transition Lead)

Concerns Raised:

Closing Remarks

Cathy: "Thank you for the open discussion. More faculty meetings will follow—room bookings were the only delay!"

Kim Phillips (Humanities): "Other business: Congratulations to Professor Selina Tusitala-Marsh, named Commonwealth Poet Laureate!"

Whisper Transcript

IMPORTANT: [Speaker labelling is likely inaccurate]

Camilla Highfield: I think they're going to The problem is I think that's a lot of the work that we have to do is to make sure that we have to do that. 05:32-08:01

Cathy: I like that. 06:46-06:49

Speaker 1: What are you doing? I'm going to ask you 07:14-07:19

I think it's 08:07-08:10

Speaker 1: So, let me know. 08:42-08:44

Speaker 1: Oh, 08:53-08:54

Unidentified Speaker 2: you don't need 08:54-08:55

Krista Fouchet: that. 08:55-08:55

Speaker 1: Hey. Okay. 08:56-09:00

You: Rua ngā kākā no ki te moana nu i a kiwa te rāhiaki te moana rongo nu i herea ngā waka ki te poupakairo ka tuki wae te mata iraro i te marumaru o ngā manga tapu ko wae papa te mana wa senua o wae papa tau makara. 09:02-09:28

Unidentified Speaker 4: O Waipapa Taumata Rau. 09:24-09:29

You: Kei ngā mananga tapu o koutou mātua típuna, tēnā kutou. Good morning everybody. Please join with me to say our opening karakia. Ngā reira, kia karakia tātou. Tukua te wairua, kia rere ki ngā taumata, hei ārahi i a mātou mahi, me tā mātou whai i ngā tikanga a rātau mā. Kia mau, kia ita, kia kore ai e ngaro, kia pūpuru, Kia whakamaua, kia tina, haumie huie. 09:30-10:06

Unidentified Speaker 5: Kei ngā mana ngā tapu koutou mātua tīpuna, tēnā kutau. Good morning everybody. 09:30-09:35

Speaker 5: Please join with me to say our opening karakia. 09:36-09:39

Speaker 5: Ngā reira kia karakia tātou. 09:40-09:42

Speaker 5: Tukua te wairua, kia rere ki ngā taumata, hei ārahi i a mātou mahi, Matau whai i ngā tikanga a rātauma. Kia mau, kia ita, kia kore ai e ngaro, kia pūpuru, kia whakamaua, kia tīna, haumi e huie. 09:42-10:06

Speaker 4: heke iho mā ngā wai o horotiu ki Waipāruru, ki Waipapa, ki te toanga roa o te Waitama Tā. Ki ngā uri o tūperiri me ngā pauahi e tautau ana i tāhi kā, kei tēnā rohe, kei tēnā rohe. Tēnā koutou katoa. Kia tātou o te Pūtahi Mātauranga, ko a Karapoti mai i tēnei ata, e ngā Manukura Rua, Kamila, Kōrua Ko Kati, tēnā kōrua. O te rā hurinoi te whare, tēnā tātou katoa. 10:20-10:47

Speaker 4: Ewae wai ata etu. 10:50-10:51

Unidentified Speaker 6: Okay, so I'm just gonna do the te and then you're just gonna, yeah? Okay. Toru pha. 10:59-11:05

You: I'm just going to do this. 10:59-11:00

You: The two, two, three. 11:00-11:04

Speaker 4: Noreira Tinnata Tkatoa. 11:45-11:47

You: Noreira tina tate katoa. 11:45-11:47

You: Kilda. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou. Welcome everybody, both in person and online, to our second faculty meeting for the year. It's really great to have you all here. I'm just going to run through with you first. We're making some slight adjustments to the agenda today so that we can leave plenty of time for discussion about the proposed new structure. So I'll just briefly start with the apologies. 11:57-12:26

Unidentified Speaker 7: Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, katoa. 11:59-12:01

Speaker 7: Welcome everybody both in person and online to our second faculty meeting for the year. 12:01-12:08

Speaker 7: It's really great to have you all here. 12:08-12:10

Speaker 7: I'm just going to run through with you first, we're making some slight adjustments to the agenda today so that we can leave plenty of time for discussion about the proposed new structure. 12:11-12:23

Speaker 7: So I'll just briefly start with the apologies and go into the deans report. We've also got associate deans reports and associate deans here for any questions that people might have and we want to give you an opportunity to ask questions about their reports and make any further comments about academic matters that you've got questions about or concerns for any of their response that they can give you. 12:24-12:51

You: and go into the deans report. We've also got associate deans reports and associate deans here for any questions that people might have and we want to give you an opportunity to ask questions about their reports and make any further comments about academic matters that you've got questions about or concerns for any of their response that they can give you. We'll then go on to the school structure and there'll be plenty of time that Cathy and Mark will facilitate that conversation and we'll have quite a big focus on the where to from here as well so that people can start to see a sense of what's happening next. So I do just want to say thank you to Marie for collecting the apologies we think we've got about 57 apologies and I also wanted to ask if anyone had any comments from the prior faculty minutes If they don't, I'll just give you a minute if anyone wants to raise anything about the prior minutes. I will say, move that the minutes of the faculty meeting and education held on the 28th of February 2035 be taken as read and confirmed. All those in favour please say aye. Aye. Thank you. I'm now going to just move on to the Dean's report. 12:27-13:52

Speaker 7: We'll then go on to the school structure and there'll be plenty of time for that. Kathy and Mark will facilitate that conversation and we'll have quite a big focus on the where to from here as well so that people can start to see a sense of what's happening next. So I do just want to say thank you to Marie for collecting the apologies. We think we've got about 57 apologies and I also wanted to ask if anyone had any comments from the prior faculty minutes. And if they don't, I'll just give you a minute if anyone wants to raise anything about the prior minutes. I will say, move that the minutes of the faculty meeting and education held on the 28th of February 2025 be taken as read and confirmed. All those in favour please say aye. Aye. Thank you. I'm now going to just move on to the deans report. 12:51-13:52

You: We've obviously had an awful lot happening since the 1st of January and there's been lots and lots of really positive things happening in the faculty and so Niula has been engaged in international trips to China. She's recently been in Wuhan but she's also been travelling with Lawrence to the China Open Week where she was connecting with future students education agents and key partners including UK Education and the International Office. She reports that these visits were not just productive, they were energising, they deepened our understanding of the international education landscape and revealed exciting opportunities for growth and she's very optimistic about what lies ahead in that space. We've also got good news on our semester two enrolments. They're looking very strong across the board and this is a direct result of everybody's high-work professional and we really want to make a clear statement that it is the role that you play in making our programs attractive, inclusive and impactful and the work that our professional staff do in getting our students into the university which as we know is not always that easy. Creative Partnerships. This month our faculty proudly sponsored two of our Aotearoa's premier cultural events, the Aotearoa Arts Fair and the Auckland Writers Festival. These partnerships allowed us to shine a spotlight on academic excellence, engage with future students and strengthen ties with our alumni and donors. A particular highlight was ELIM graduate Rosa Turley's curation of Animal Mineral Vegetable at Gale Langsford, another moment of pride for us and a big thank you to Fiona Jack, Jim Spears, Joyce Campbell and Paula Morris for your contributions to those events. 13:58-15:54

Speaker 7: We've obviously had an awful lot happening since the 1st of January. 13:58-14:02

Speaker 7: And there's been lots and lots of really positive things happening in the faculty. 14:03-14:07

Speaker 7: And so, Nuala has been engaged in international trips to China. 14:08-14:14

Speaker 7: She's recently been in Wuhan but she's also been traveling with Lawrence to the China Open Week where she was connecting with future students, education agents and key partners including UP Education and the International Office. She reports that these visits were not just productive, they were energizing, they deepened our understanding of the international education landscape and revealed exciting opportunities for growth and she's very optimistic about what lies ahead in in that space. We've also got good news on our semester two enrolments. They're looking very strong across the board and this is a direct result of everybody's high-work professional and academic staff and we really want to make a clear statement that it is the role that you play in making our programmes attractive, inclusive and impactful and the work that our professional staff do in getting our students into the university which as we know is not always that easy. Creative partnerships. This month our faculty proudly sponsored two of our Aotearoa's premier cultural events, the Aotearoa Art Fair and the Auckland Writers Festival. These partnerships allowed us to shine a spotlight on academic excellence, engage with future students and strengthen ties with our alumni and donors. A particular highlight was ELIM graduate Rosa Turley's curation of Animal Mineral Vegetable at Gau Langston Another movement of pride for us. And a big thank you to Fiona Jack, Jim Spears, Joyce Campbell and Paula Morris for your contributions to those events. Staying with the creative theme, I'm sure many of you have seen in the news media that Professor Ngārunga Ellis alongside Deirdre Brown and the late Jonathan Mane Huoiki won the Book Hub Award for the Illustrated Nonfiction at Ockham Book Awards for Toi Tamana in a Digital City. 14:15-16:15

You: A creative theme. I'm sure many of you have seen in the news media that Professor Ngāronga Ellis alongside Deirdre Brown and the late Jonathan Mānei Puaiki won the Book Hub Award for the Illustrated Non-Fiction at Ockham Book Awards for Toi Tamana in a Digitist History of Māori Art. And this landmark publication is receiving national and international acclaim. In her music, Dr Maurek Hutchison recently returned from Tunisia where she performed at the investiture of the new Bishop of North Africa, a significant international honour and a beautiful example of the global reach of our staff. There were lots of really great graduation highlights and thank you so much to all of our staff who participated in graduation last week. It was a really big week for many of us. A lot of energy goes into that preparation and it's so great to see so many of you on the stage and supporting our students. 15:57-16:55

Speaker 7: and this landmark publication is receiving national and international acclaim. 16:16-16:21

Speaker 7: In her music, Dr Maurek Hutchison recently returned from Tunisia, where she performed at the investiture of the new Bishop of North Africa, a significant international honour and a beautiful example of the global reach of our staff. 16:22-16:35

Speaker 7: There were lots of really great graduation highlights, and thank you so much to all of our staff who participated in graduation last week. 16:36-16:44

Speaker 7: It was a really big week for many of us. A lot of energy goes into that preparation and it's so great to see so many of you on the stage and supporting our students and being photographed with them and just generally sort of sharing in their joy and the fact that they had achieved so much and I know that the families and whanau of all of those students also appreciate that. I just wanted to highlight a few of the Students that were featured on our faculty website. Mary Lalea Proud-Samoan and Cook Islander, and the first in her mother's family to graduate received her BA in Criminology and Psychology. She's now pursuing postgrad study to become a crime analyst serving Pacific communities, all while mentoring youth working and caring for her brother. And then Julie Busso, a household name in food writing, graduated with a Master of Creative Writing. 16:44-17:43

You: and just generally sharing in their joy and the fact that they had achieved so much. And I know that the families and whanau, all of those students also appreciate that. I just wanted to highlight a few of the students that were featured on our faculty website. Mary Lalea Proud-Samoan and Cook Islander, the first in her mother's family to graduate received her BA in criminology and psychology. She's now pursuing and postgrad study to become a crime analyst serving Pacific communities, all while mentoring youth working and caring for her brother. And then Julie Busso, a household name in food writing, graduated with a Master of Creative Writing. She's now turning her talents to fiction, showing that it's never too late to begin a new creative chapter. It was wonderful to see Sophie Scott-Elvige walk across the stage. One of our staff members completed her Masters of Social and Community Leadership. 16:57-17:57

Speaker 7: to fiction, showing that it's never too late to begin a new creative chapter. It was wonderful to see Sophie Scott-Elvage walk across the stage. One of our staff members completed her Masters of Social and Community Leadership with first-class honours. Her research on homeless dog owners has real-world implications and she's exploring how we might support this vulnerable group here in Aotearoa. Recognition and awards. We've also had several staff and students receiving well-deserved accolades Professor Stuart McNaughton was elected a Ngāāāhu Re a Te Aparanga Fellow, recognising his leadership in literacy research and contributions as a former Chief Science Advisor. Professor Nicholas Rowe was named a Fellow of the Royal Society of New Zealand, the first Dance Studies Scholar to receive this honour. His work continues to centre inclusion, equity and international collaboration. Teupora McDowell, Head of Māori Studies, won the 2025 Tape Music Prize for is Alvin Waierea, a powerful fusion of whakapapa and contemporary sound. He'll also perform at Glastonbury later this year. Whoa! Nice to have you here today to receive that clap. And Kalia Lima, a third year Elam student and Tuakana mentor, is a finalist in the 2025 Kini Tuheatea Portrait Award. Her work is a celebration of Kāhine Māori, excellence in the visual arts. Congratulations to Carlos Kusira, who graduated with his PhD last week. It was great to see him off the stage as well. Professor Rebecca Jessen has secured over 370,000 from the Māori Clay Literacy Trust to support a new research fellow position. Our postgraduate composers Grace Wellick, Yvonne New and Babak Simone have been selected for the prestigious Sounds of Now composition in Vienna. And finally, a special of a new gift agreement with the Auckland City Mission Te Tāpui Atawhai, supporting a research project to evaluate the home ground housing model. This partnership was made possible through the efforts of Becky Calder, Krista Fouchet, Laura Chubb and John Fenity and the generosity of Auckland City Mission and alumna Helen Robinson. In closing, and I'm sure there are many more accolades that we could be sharing and it's really good if we can hear about things that are going on in the faculty so that we can share these things. As always, thank you for your commitment, your creativity and your care across teaching, research, mentoring and community engagement. Your work continues to elevate the reputation of this faculty both locally and globally. I'm now going to just ask if anybody has got any key questions or points they would like to raise. 17:44-20:43

You: with first-class honours. Her research on homeless dog owners has real-world implications and she's exploring how we might support this vulnerable group here in Aotearoa. Recognition and awards. We've also had several staff and students receiving well-deserved accolades. Professor Stuart McNaughton was elected a Te Aparanga Fellow, recognising his leadership in literacy research and contributions as a former Chief Science Advisor. 17:57-18:26

You: Professor Nicholas Rowe was named a Fellow of the Royal Society of New Zealand. The first Dance Studies Scholar to receive this honour, his work continues to centre inclusion, equity and international collaboration. Te Aukora McDowell, Head of Māori Studies, won the 2025 Take Music Prize with his album Waierea, a powerful fusion of whakapapa and contemporary sound. He'll also perform at Glastonbury later this year. 18:27-18:52

You: Nice to have you here today to receive that clap. And Kalia Lima, a third year ELIM student and Tuakana mentor, is a finalist in the 2025 Kini Tuhe Te Portrait Award. Her work is a celebration of wahine Māori excellence in the visual arts. Congratulations to Carlos Kutera who graduated with his PhD last week. It's great to see him walk on stage as well. Professor Rebecca Jessen has secured over 370,000 from the Māori Clay Literacy Trust to support a new research fellow position. Our postgraduate composers Grace Wellick, Yvonne New and Babak Simone have been selected for the prestigious Sounds of Now composition in Vienna. And finally, a special acknowledgement of a new gift agreement with the Auckland City Mission Te Tāpui Atawhai, supporting a research project to evaluate the home ground housing model. This partnership was made possible to the ethics of Becky Calder, Christopher Shea, Laura Chubb and John Fenity and the generosity of Auckland City Mishnah and alumna Helen Robinson. In closing, and I'm sure there are many more accolades that we could be sharing and it's really good if we can hear about things that are going on in the faculty so that we can share these things. As always, thank you for your commitment, your creativity and your care across teaching, research, mentoring and community engagement. 18:58-20:26

You: work continues to elevate the reputation of the faculty both locally and globally. I'm now going to just ask if anybody has got any key questions or points they would like to raise as a result of the Associate Dean reports. There are things in this report that some of you, I would imagine, are very interested in reading. 20:27-20:56

Speaker 7: As a result of the Associate Dean reports, there are things in this report that some of you, I would imagine, are very interested in reading. We've had a lot, for example, had a lot of people very concerned about the situation with doctoral examinations, and I note that Krista has clearly laid out, in her AD role, laid out what is happening in that space and I just wondered if people might have any questions or comments about that or anything else here in terms of the ADA work or the AD research work or the TNL work. So I'm just going to give you a minute to think back through and ask if you've got questions or you'd like to address anything in those reports. Yes. 20:44-21:38

You: We've had a lot of people very concerned about the situation with doctoral examinations and I note that Krista has clearly laid out, in her AD role, what is happening in that space and I just wondered if people might have any questions or comments about that or anything else here in terms of the ADA work or the AD research work or the TNL work. 20:57-21:27

You: I'm just going to give you a minute to think that through and ask if you've got questions or you'd like to address anything in those reports. Yes. Sorry, this is not a question, but I just wonder if people could introduce themselves before they speak because we don't necessarily know who people are and that would be helpful. 21:27-21:55

Unidentified Speaker 8: Sorry, this is not a question, but I just wonder if people could introduce themselves before they speak, because we don't necessarily know who people are and that would be helpful. For example, I'm deeply apologetic, but I don't know your name. Yeah, 21:45-21:59

You: I don't know your name. Yeah, sorry. My name's Camilla Highfield and I'm one of the Deputy Deans. And I'm very sorry I wasn't clear about that. We did send out an email this week to explain that Cathy and I were going to be chairing the meeting and yeah, apologies. 21:57-22:15

Speaker 7: sorry. My name's Camilla Highfield and I'm one of the Deputy Deans and I'm very sorry I wasn't clear about that. We did send out an email this week to explain that Cathy and I were going to be chairing the meeting and I Yeah, apologies. 21:59-22:15

Speaker 7: Over here? 22:20-22:21

Unidentified Speaker 9: There's people in the pointing room. 22:23-22:25

Speaker 9: I think it's someone letting it out. 22:25-22:27

Neil Curtis: Go ahead, Neil Curtis, media and screen. 22:30-22:34

You: Neil Curtis media and screen is Krista online do we know? 22:31-22:36

Speaker 10: Is Krista online? Do we know? 22:35-22:36

You: Oh hi Krista. I was just going to say that the School of Graduate Studies because I chair exams they just send around the list and they're doing like 65 in a month aren't they? 65 exams. 22:38-22:56

Speaker 4: Here she is. 22:38-22:39

Speaker 4: Oh, hi Krista. 22:39-22:40

Speaker 10: I was just going to say that School of Graduate Studies, because I chair exams, they just send around a list and they're doing like 65 in a month, aren't they? 65 exams. So that's just to give an indication that they are trying to move forward and clear a massive backlog. And that is an extraordinary number of exams, but they have hundreds and hundreds to do, right? So it's also an appeal for anybody who hasn't yet done the training. 22:42-23:12

You: So that's just to give an indication that they are trying to move forward and clear a massive backlog and that is an extraordinary number of exams that they have hundreds and hundreds to do right. So it's also an appeal for anybody who hasn't yet done the training to be an independent chair for exams please do it and for those who have done the training please accept invitations to be examiners because if we don't share exams we can't it's difficult for us to complain about not getting done if they don't have a chair. So please can everybody sign up. Thank you. Krista have we got anything further to add? Cheers. Are there any other questions about any other matters related to the SOCET Dean work? 22:56-23:49

Speaker 10: to be an independent chair for exams, please do it. And for those who have done the training, please accept invitations to be examiners because if we don't chair exams, it's difficult for us to complain about 23:12-23:28

Speaker 3: them not getting 23:28-23:28

Speaker 10: done if they don't have a chair. So please can everybody sign up. 23:28-23:33

Speaker 7: Thank you. Krista, have we got anything further to add? Cheers. 23:35-23:41

Speaker 7: Are there any other questions about any other matters related to the Associate Dean work? Okay, in that case I will hand over to Cathy. 23:45-23:57

You: to Cathy. 23:56-23:57

Cathy: be able to talk to you about this subject today. We're now going to move to talk about the school restructure. So do we have it? Can we have it on the PowerPoint slide please? Great. Okay. So this at this point won't be a surprise to everybody. You'll all have seen it before, the recommended model for the faculty's new school structure. And hopefully everybody's also had the chance to read the extensive feedback that colleagues provided about the model. 24:12-24:41

You: Thank you So this at this point won't be a surprise to everybody. You'll all have seen it before, the recommended model for the faculty's new school structure and hopefully everybody's also had the chance to read the extensive feedback that colleagues provided about the model and that we put up on the website. So we've had a months-long discussion, and I mean many months, long discussion about this model at many levels. That's the restructure steering the wider consultative group in all of our schools and disciplines, many individual conversations and many meetings. In the course of that, we've proposed models, we've debated and discussed and argued about them. They've been revised, rejected, sometimes they've been withdrawn, sometimes they've been reinstated. It's all been part of a long process of deliberating, talking to each other and listening to each other. And I want to say that in the course of that, we've heard some very passionate and deeply held views about school restructure from colleagues who we don't well we don't know very well yet about their disciplines about who they feel most at home with about who they identify with and who they most want to work with so it's as a result of all of this that we've developed this proposed model for a school restructure and it's our model in a very real way because of all of those conversations the purpose of this meeting is to collect your last thoughts and ideas about it, any last comments, and to take those to the Dean who's helping with us today. She'll consider them and then she'll recommend a proposed model to the VC. There's a couple of things that I want to say just before we start that. First of all, we're not going to have a vote on this model. And that's because we've already had an extensive say in developing it. Ultimately, the accountability and the answerability for this lies with the Dean. 24:25-26:25

Speaker 11: that we put up on the website. So we've had a months long discussion, and I mean many months, long discussion about this model at many levels. That's the restructure steering group, the wider consultative group, in all of our schools and disciplines, many individual conversations and many meetings. In the course of that, we've proposed models, we've debated and discussed and argued about them. They've been and who they most want to work with. 24:42-25:41

Speaker 11: So it's as a result of all of this that we've developed this proposed model for a school restructure. And it's our model in a very real way because of all of those conversations. The purpose of this meeting is to collect your last thoughts and ideas about it, any last comments, and to take those to the Dean who can't be with us today. She'll consider them and then she'll recommend a proposed model to the VC. There's a couple of things that I want to say just before we start that. 25:42-26:12

Speaker 11: of all, we're not going to have a vote on this model. And that's because we've already had an extensive say in developing it. Ultimately, the accountability and the answerability for this lies with the Dean. And she takes that accountability with our best advice. So that's what our job is, to give her the best advice on this. And the second thing that I want to say is that no model for a school restructure will ever achieve universal acceptance. I think sometimes in the course of the conversation, and you could see that people hoped that that would happen, that we would come up with a perfect model that we would all love. So that's never going to happen. Our job is to pick the best possible one in a real world, the best possible one that has the widest possible legitimacy across the faculty. That's been our goal and we hope that that's what we've been able to achieve. So with all of that, I'd like to ask for your comments here in the room and also on Zoom, so I might need to be jogged if I don't see people there. 26:12-27:12

You: And she takes that accountability with our best advice. So that's what our job is, to give her the best advice on this. And the second thing that I want to say is that no model for a school restructure will ever achieve universal acceptance. I think sometimes in the course of the conversation, you can see that people hoped that that would happen, that we would come up with a perfect model that we would all love. So that's never going to happen. Our job is to pick the best possible one in a real world. 26:25-26:54

You: the best possible one that has the widest possible legitimacy across the faculty. That's been our goal and we hope that that's what we've been able to achieve. So with all of that, I'd like to ask for your comments here in the room and also on Zoom, so I might need to be jogged if I don't see people there. And after we've had a chance to talk about it here, then I and Mark Barrow will discuss the next steps, which probably is almost in people's mind, I would imagine, what happens And we're going to try to be as precise as possible about what we're going to do and when you can expect things to happen. Sound okay? Okay, so any comments? Any last things people would like to say? Sorry, me again, Neil Curtis, medium screen. 26:54-27:48

Speaker 11: and after we've had a chance to talk about it here, then I and Mark Barrow will discuss the next steps, which probably is foremost in people's mind, I would imagine, what happens next. And we're going to try to be as precise as possible about what we're going to do and when you can expect things to happen. Sound okay? Okay, so any comments, any last things people would like to say? 27:12-27:38

Speaker 10: Sorry, me again, Neil Curtis, Media and Scream. This is the structure we're putting forward, is it? 27:46-27:55

Speaker 1: Sorry? This is 27:55-27:56

You: This is the structure we're putting forward. Excellent. Thank you, Neil. I was a little bit confused. I was waiting for a... Oh, here's another one. Oh, no, no. Neil, but if we hadn't done that, then people would be thinking, oh, what about this model we didn't consider? It's fine, but this is the one that we're working with. This is the one we're working with and we're just seeking advice to NULA to present it. Yes. Yeah, okay. 27:56-28:24

Speaker 10: the structure we're putting forward. Excellent. 27:56-28:00

Speaker 1: Thank you, Neil. 28:01-28:02

Speaker 10: Just needed to, just, I was a little bit confused. I was waiting for a, oh, and here's another one. Oh, no, no. 28:02-28:08

Speaker 11: Ah, Neil, but if we hadn't done that, then people would be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no thinking, "What about this model we didn't consider?" 28:09-28:15

Speaker 10: It's fine, but this is the one that we're working with. 28:15-28:18

Speaker 10: This is the one we're working with and we're just seeking advice to 28:18-28:20

Speaker 11: NULA 28:20-28:21

Speaker 10: to present it. 28:21-28:23

Speaker 11: That's right. 28:23-28:23

Speaker 10: Yeah, okay. 28:23-28:24

You: So, I think this is great. It means the school structure is completely transformed. It means that what works will continue to work, and I think that's really important, that we don't introduce any change simply for change's sake. We're a brand new faculty. We need as much robustness as we can have in order to move forward. 28:24-28:54

Speaker 10: So, I think this is great. 28:24-28:28

Speaker 10: It means the school structure is completely transformed. 28:28-28:32

Speaker 10: It means that what works will continue to work, and I think that's really important. 28:33-28:37

Speaker 10: that we don't introduce any change simply for change's sake. We're a brand new faculty. We need as much robustness as we can have in order to move forward. So in light of that, I would say that this allows us then to turn our attention to the faculty, right? Because from my perspective, and I may be wrong, I apologize for this, But from my perspective, we are a faculty in name only. And firstly, I would like to acknowledge all of the work that's being done by colleagues on committees and in senior roles, because I know massive amounts of work is being done to make sure everything functions and make sure everything works. So I'll fully acknowledge that and I'm grateful for it. But at the moment, I don't feel like we have a faculty identity. 28:38-29:36

You: So, in light of that, I would say that this allows us then to turn our attention to the faculty, right? Because from my perspective, and I may be wrong, I apologize for this, right? But from my perspective, we are a faculty in name only, right? And firstly, I would like to acknowledge all of the work that's being done by colleagues on committees and in senior roles, because I know massive amounts of work is being done. 28:54-29:24

You: to make sure everything works, right? So I fully acknowledge that and I'm grateful for it. But at the moment, I don't feel like we have a faculty identity. We don't have a faculty culture. And I don't really think yet we have faculty values, right? I hear from professional staff certain things are going on in their environment that I would regard as quite toxic. 29:24-29:54

Speaker 10: faculty culture and I don't really think yet we have faculty values right I hear from professional staff certain things are going on in in their environment that I would regard as quite toxic I would hope that we could eliminate that professional staff aren't here I think still I'm still trying to work out what this who is for what 29:38-30:06

You: I would hope that we could eliminate that. Professional staff aren't here I think still. I'm still trying to work out what this is for. 29:54-30:05

Speaker 11: everybody was invited yes 30:06-30:08

You: Everybody was invited. 30:06-30:07

You: Yes but certain professional staff when they ask for an agenda will refuse access to the agenda which makes them feel like they can't come. 30:07-30:15

Speaker 10: but But professional staff, when they ask for an agenda, were refused access to the agenda, which makes them feel like they can't come. So I would like my professional colleagues here, because I think that's important. And what our culture becomes, what our identity becomes, what our values are, will emerge out of this meeting. This meeting is absolutely crucial. And it's quite indicative that people still don't recognise each other or know names, right? So we've been a faculty for five months. 30:08-30:38

You: So I would like my professional colleagues here because I think that's important. 30:17-30:23

You: and what our culture becomes, what our identity becomes, what our values are, will emerge out of this meeting. This meeting is absolutely crucial. And it's quite indicative that people still don't recognise each other or know names, right? So we've been a faculty for five months. We have not yet had one moment, one opportunity to develop any phenomenon. And I find that quite extraordinary. And I'm not sure why. So with this in place, with this out of the way, Thank you, I hear you. Any other comments? Oh, that's me. Yes, that's me. Can you hear me in the room? Awesome. Hi, everybody. I'm Maxime Lewis. I am from Classics and Ancient History, which is in humanities. And I was involved in writing an individual submission and also one for our discipline. And I just wanted to say, I think like many people who've been here for a while, we see lots of and sometimes it may feel like our words have less meaning to other people than we wish they would and I just want to say I find it really really heartening that it seems that the feedback from the people who are affected by specific decisions or specific proposals has been really taken into account in putting this model forward and I just think that that's really valuable and I think it will mean that this school structure you know assuming that NULA adopts the recommendation has the best chance of succeeding. So I just want to say thank you very much for listening to the people who are going to be most affected by the proposed changes. 30:23-32:33

Speaker 10: we have not yet had one moment, one opportunity to develop any Phenona time. And I find that quite extraordinary and I'm not sure why. So with this in place, with this out of the way, this is really robust, it's really strong, it looks great as a faculty, right? So hopefully after when this is done and part of this structure allows us to move forward and develop our faculty identity, and not have to worry about things that have fallen over because we've made too much change. All right. So that's what I would say. Kiora. Thank you. 30:38-31:16

Speaker 11: Thanks. Thank you. I hear you. Any other comments? Oh. Oh, Maxine. Yes, Maxine. 31:24-31:32

Speaker 12: Kia ora. Can you hear me in the room? 31:33-31:34

Speaker 11: Yes. 31:35-31:35

Speaker 12: Awesome. Hi, everybody. 31:36-31:37

Speaker 12: I am from Classics and Ancient History, which is in humanities. And I was involved in writing an individual submission and also one for our discipline. And I just wanted to say, I think like many people who've been here for a while, we see lots of consultation processes. And sometimes it may feel like our words have less meaning to other people than we wish they would. And I just want to say, I find it really, really heartening that it seems that the feedback, from the people who are affected by specific decisions or specific proposals has been really taken into account in putting this model forward. And I just think that that's really valuable and I think it will mean that this school structure, assuming that NULA adopts the recommendation, has the best chance of succeeding. So I just wanted to say thank you very much for listening to the people who are going to be most affected by the proposed changes. 31:38-32:33

Speaker 1: Thanks, Ressal. 32:36-32:37

You: Thanks, back to them. 32:36-32:37

Speaker 11: Anything else? I'm sure there is. Other things? Yes. Is it? 32:41-32:50

You: Anything else? 32:42-32:42

You: Oh, I'm sorry. 32:43-32:43

You: Anything? 32:44-32:44

You: Yes. 32:48-32:48

You: Is it one? 32:50-32:50

You: Kia ora, Helen Dixon, Learning Development and Professional Practice. I just want to ask a question. I acknowledge and I think it's important that people need to go where they think is the best place for them, where they belong. 33:01-33:20

Speaker 13: I just want to ask a question. I acknowledge and I think it's important that people need to go where they think is the best place for them, where they belong. So that's good. But I wonder if as the steering committee, you've considered we've now got five schools that are very different in size. And I understand why. 33:07-33:37

You: So that's good. But I wonder if as the steering committee, you've considered we've now got five schools that are very different in size. And I understand why some of that is. But I wonder if you could comment on what you see as some of the potential fishhooks. 33:20-33:49

Speaker 13: some of that is, but I wonder if you could comment on what you see as some of the potential fishhooks in having schools of five different sizes and what that might mean for us as a faculty. And before I finish, I also want to say I support totally what Neil had said before about us having a vision need to do there. Thank you. 33:37-34:09

You: in having schools of five different sizes and what that might mean for us as a faculty. And before I finish, I also want to say I support totally what Neil had said before about us having a vision and the need to do that. Thank you. Thanks, Helen. We certainly did think about the difference in size. That was an important consideration all the way through. 33:50-34:18

Speaker 11: Thanks, Helen. We certainly did think about the difference in size. That was an important consideration all the way through. But in the end, we did decide to go for a model that has some difference in sizes. And one of the things that we considered was how often this happens elsewhere in the university. So in science that we looked at, even I think in FMHS, I mean, it's not uncommon to have schools of different sizes. So we weighed it. 34:12-34:37

You: In the end, we did decide to go for a model that has some difference in sizes. And one of the things that we considered was how often this happens elsewhere in the university. So in science that we looked at, even I think in FMHS, I mean, it's not uncommon to have schools of different sizes. So we weighed it against the importance of having some kind of coherence in terms of discipline and the importance of people not being made to go places they really did not feel would work for them. 34:19-34:48

You: So we weighed that together and we decided that the difference in size, given that we'd already decided to keep Tiwana Ngoi Papa as a single school, that's what they wanted, we weighed it and we decided that it would be all right. But I think it's crucially important, like you say, what happens next in terms of internal governance, because that's obviously going to be quite different in terms of size. In many ways, you know, this whole process, it feels like it's finished and some of it's sort of thinking, oh, thank God, it's finished, right? But in fact, it's hardly started. And the conversation about the importance of developing a vision and developing values, what's coming next in the conversations we're going to have about how to do internal restructure, about choosing heads, about choosing names, the first thing we're going to do, that actually is the actual process that we will take to establish some kind of vision. Because in my own personal opinion, nothing is worse for developing a vision than getting people together in a vision for the school will develop is because we're going to be talking about something substantive and that will largely be how these schools are actually going to work in practice. 34:48-36:02

Speaker 11: What happens next in terms of internal governance? Because that's obviously going to be quite different in terms of size. In many ways, you know, this whole process, it feels like it's finished and some of us are sort of thinking, oh, thank God, it's finished, right? But in fact, it's hardly started. And the conversation about the importance of developing a vision and developing values, what's coming next in the conversations we're going to have about how to do internal restructure, about choosing heads, about choosing names. The first thing we're going to do, that actually is the actual process that we will take to establish some kind of vision. Because in my own personal opinion, nothing is worse for developing a vision than getting people together in a room and saying, right, nice to see you, we're here to talk about a vision. The way in which a vision for the school will develop is because we're going to be talking about something substantive, and that will largely be how these schools are actually going to work in practice. So I do think you're right. We need some kind of sense of, if not vision. I like the idea of shared purpose. We need some idea of shared purpose. And it's in these conversations that we'll be having about how to make the schools work. By far the biggest part of the job that I think that will happen. So, yeah, I don't know if that's the best I can do, Helen. I don't know if that answers you. 35:07-36:24

You: So I do think you're right. We need some kind of sense of, if not vision, I like the idea of shared purpose. 36:03-36:09

You: We need some idea of shared purpose and it's in these conversations that we'll be having about how to make the schools work. 36:09-36:15

You: by far the biggest part of the job that I think that will happen. So yeah, I don't know if that's the best I can do, Helen. I don't know if that answers you. Well, I guess it helps that I come from the former Faculty of Arts, where that is exactly what we had. 36:15-36:45

Speaker 11: Well, I guess it helps that I come from the former Faculty of Arts where that is exactly what we had. So we had two very large, and I know, you know, nobody wants to think that this is a model for everybody and we do not think that. But I can tell you by way of example that we had two very large schools, one fairly large school and one very small school, and it did not produce problems for us in the process of discussion and making decisions. We did not We did not ever think, oh, somebody's voice counts more. We recognised the reasons that some schools were smaller and the particularities of the representation that they did of their fields. And I don't know, maybe the other heads of the former art schools might, you know, be happy to hear from you, might disagree about this. But I can say that I've seen it work. And I know it's not going to be the same, but I have seen it work and I think we can do it. I don't know. 36:39-37:36

You: and the particularities of the representation that they did of their fields. And I don't know, maybe the other heads of the former art schools might be happy to hear from you, might disagree about this. But I can say that I've seen it work. And I know it's not going to be the same, but I have seen it work and I think we can do it. I don't know, Kim, Frances, Kim, any comments you want to add to that? 37:15-37:42

Speaker 11: Kim, any comments you want to add to that? Yeah. Yeah. 37:37-37:47

You: Yeah. 37:46-37:46

You: Marina. 37:51-37:52

Speaker 14: Marina, I'm Sarah Bickerton. I'm a lecturer in public policy, so SOCSI. So feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome standing up here. But Steve Winter and I, for Politics and Policy, wrote a combined submission on the structure. And I wanted to reiterate one of our key points here. So apologies for repeating myself from a submission. That one of the major concerns, like SOCSI is getting bigger. And we're bringing in the folks from communication and global studies. And that's cool. 37:51-38:34

You: I'm Sarah Bickerton. 37:53-37:55

You: I'm a lecturer in public policy, so SOXI. 37:55-37:58

You: So feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome, standing up here. 38:00-38:03

You: But Steve Winter and I, for Politics and Policy, wrote a combined submission on the structure, And I wanted to reiterate one of our key points here. So apologies for repeating myself from a submission. That one of the major concerns like SOCSI is getting bigger. And we're bringing in the folks from communication and global studies. And that's cool. Our concern about that was for our professional staff. 38:04-38:39

Speaker 14: was for our professional staff. And that the professional staff, this wasn't used as an excuse to lay off professional staff. Because then the professional staff group services for SoxEye now have three more programs to deal with. And so added workload, a lot more work. And I want to just reiterate our concern about the appropriate resourcing for professional staff. 38:37-39:07

You: of use as an excuse to lay off professional staff. Because then the professional staff group services for SOCSI now have three more programs to deal with. And so added workload, a lot more work. And I want to just reiterate our concern about the appropriate resourcing for professional staff to be able to deal with these bigger schools. 38:42-39:10

Speaker 14: staff to be able to deal with these bigger schools and that that isn't just like the same, the more work is lumped onto the same number of people. Kia ora. 39:07-39:17

You: the same, the more work is lumped onto the same number of people. Kia ora. So I can answer that one. Thanks, Sarah. And I do hear you on that too. But unfortunately, what I have to say is that academic staff like me, like others on this group, like the Dean, don't make decisions about professional staff deployment. I can tell you that in no way, hand on heart, in no way has this process of coming up with a good school structure been designed to look any reductions in professional staff, because any consideration about the future deployment with professional staff is happening in a separate process. Claire might want to add to this, but there is no connection between our view of what makes a good school structure and what will happen with professional staff, and that doesn't mean that nothing will happen. I can't say, because I'm not involved, because academic staff do not make those decisions. Claire, did you want to add? 39:12-40:11

Speaker 11: So I can answer that one. Thanks, Sarah. And I do hear you on that too. But unfortunately, what I have to say is that academic staff like me, like others on this group, like the Dean, don't make decisions about professional staff deployment. I can tell you that in no way, on heart, in no way has this process of coming up with a good school structure been designed to legitimise any reductions in professional staff, because any consideration about the future deployment of professional staff is happening in a separate process. Is Claire here? Claire might want to add to this, but there is, where are you, Sarah? There is no connection between our view of what makes a good school structure and what will happen with professional staff, and that doesn't mean that nothing will happen. I can't say, because I'm not involved because academic staff do not make those decisions. Claire, did you want to add? 39:22-40:11

You: Thanks Cathy. Kia ora koutou. Yeah, I just wanted to say that the group services allocations across schools will be proportionate to the schools. So that's, if you think of sort of the academic FTE and the SS, there's a similar, so group services FTE is allocated based on the number of, you know, at a high level. 40:13-40:41

Speaker 15: Thanks, Cathy. Kia ora koutou. Yeah, I just wanted to say that the group services allocations across schools will be proportionate to the schools. So that's, if you think of sort of the academic FTE and the SS, there's a similar, so group services FTE is, is allocated based on the number of, you know, at a high level, proportional to the number of academic staff in any particular business unit. So there'll be a process that is part of the implementation phase that will look at professional staff distribution across the new schools to make sure, as you say, Sarah, that there's not the same amount of people doing more work. 40:14-41:04

You: to the number of academic staff in any particular business unit. So there'll be a process that is part of the implementation phase that will look at professional staff distribution across the new schools to make sure, as you say, Sarah, that there's not the same amount of people doing more work. 40:42-41:04

You: Feel that. 41:05-41:06

You: Other comments or questions? 41:09-41:11

You: Yeah. 41:11-41:11

Speaker 9: I'd like to ask you again about the reasons you provided for us not voting on it. I didn't buy those. It seems it creates perhaps the wrong precedence. I realize it's the Dean's decision, but she could very well decide to consult us by way of a democratic vote. There's been so many procedures of consultation where the decisions are made that I don't feel represent our voice. In this case, I'm a bit hesitant to ask that question because I'm actually happy with where we landed here. But I do think that she could choose to go for a vote. So I didn't buy the reason you provided. 41:15-41:53

You: I'm a bit hesitant to ask that question because I'm actually happy with where we landed here. But I do think that she could choose to go for a vote. So I didn't buy the reason you provided. Well, if we had a vote, Patrick, then we'd only be the only people voting would be those here today. That's not everybody in the faculty. I mean, so, you know, okay, so this is my field because I'm a political scientist, right? The only, but now you will stop. So it's not as though voting, it's not as though voting is the only thing. 41:41-42:11

Speaker 11: Well, if we had a vote, Patrick, then the only people voting would be those here today. That's not everybody in the faculty. I mean, so, you know, okay, so this is my field because I'm a political scientist, right? 41:54-42:05

Speaker 11: So now you're all stuck. So it's not as though voting is the only way to achieve legitimacy, right? You know, we could have a vote that would produce one single result, Donald Trump, you know, that's it. And none of the reasons or the arguing or, you know, the gradations or anything like that. Instead, what we've gone for has been a multi-stage level of deliberation. So deliberative Democrats don't know if Matheson is here, but it's an alternative way to try to do it. 42:05-42:35

You: any way to achieve legitimacy, right? You know, we could have a vote that would produce one single result, Donald Trump, you know, that's it. And none of the reasons or the arguing or, you know, the gradations or anything like that. Instead, what we've gone for has been a multi-stage level of deliberation. So deliberative Democrats don't know if Matheson is here, but it's an alternative way to try to achieve some kind of popular participation and legitimacy. So that's one thing that I would say. The fact that there's no does not mean that there has not been any democratic participation in this model. 42:11-42:45

Speaker 11: to achieve some kind of popular participation and legitimacy. So that's one thing that I would say. The fact that there's no vote does not mean that there has not been any democratic participation in this model. The other thing that I would say is that ultimately the Dean has the responsibility. She's accountable. That's what it means to have these positions. They're hard. It means you're accountable for how well these things go. So it has to be her decision in the end. And that's why I said we can give the best advice. We can give a lot of advice. The Dean is very I'm interested in our advice, but she's the one who will take the responsibility for the decision. So that is my own view. People might want to talk more about this, but do we have an order of mic? Oh. Let me ask Yvonne. 42:35-43:24

You: The other thing that I would say is that ultimately the dean has the responsibility. 42:46-42:49

You: She's accountable. 42:50-42:51

You: That's what it means to have these positions. 42:52-42:53

You: They're hard. 42:54-42:54

You: It means you're accountable for how well these things go. 42:55-42:57

You: So it has to be her decision in the end. 42:58-43:00

You: And that's why I said we can give the best advice. 43:01-43:02

You: We can give a lot of advice. 43:03-43:03

You: The dean is very interested in our advice. 43:04-43:06

You: But she's the one who will take the responsibility for the decision. 43:06-43:09

You: So that is my own view. 43:10-43:11

You: People might want to talk more about this, but do we have an order of mics? 43:13-43:18

You: Oh. 43:19-43:19

You: Let me ask Yvonne. 43:22-43:24

Speaker 16: Yvonne. Kia ora tato colleagues. I'm sorry I'm zooming in, trying to keep everyone safe from different health bugs going around at the moment. 43:24-43:35

You: Yvonne. 43:24-43:25

You: This will be. 43:26-43:26

You: Kia ora kato, colleagues. 43:29-43:30

You: I'm sorry I'm zooming in, trying to keep everyone safe from different health bugs going around at the moment. 43:30-43:35

Speaker 16: Thank you, Cathy, for what you were just saying there, because I just wanted to emphasise that size is also not a way to show scholarly legitimacy either. And coming from Te Wananga o Waipapa, I just wanted to emphasise that it's not just what we wanted. The fact is that Te Wananga o Waipapa, and Māori studies in particular, is deeply rooted in Waipapa, and Pacific studies strongly buttresses that. And this is the value that everyone in the and in the university would understand. So I'm not sure if I'm coming through. But I'll leave it there. You could, Yvonne, we can hear you. Okay, thank you. That's all I wanted to say. 43:35-44:17

You: Thank you, Cathy, for what you were just saying there, because I just wanted to emphasize that Size is also not a way to show scholarly legitimacy either. And coming from Te Wananga o Waipapa, I just wanted to emphasize that it's not just what we wanted. The fact is that Te Wananga o Waipapa and Māori studies in particular is deeply rooted in Waipapa and Pacific studies strongly buttresses that. And this is the value that everyone in the faculty and in the university would understand. So I'm not sure if I'm coming through. But I'll leave it there. You could, Eva, and we can hear you. Okay, thank you. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you. Who's got the mic? Nicholas. Sorry, yes, Nicholas Rowe, Dance Studies. We might want to let Marcia here. You might want to know your... Yes, just wanted to see if you could turn your mics off. 43:35-44:36

Speaker 17: Thank you. 44:17-44:18

Speaker 16: Who's got that? 44:20-44:20

Speaker 17: Nicholas. Sorry, 44:21-44:23

Speaker 18: yes, Nicholas for 44:23-44:23

Speaker 17: Dance 44:23-44:25

Speaker 1: Studies. 44:25-44:25

Speaker 18: We might want to let Marcia, you might want to know 44:26-44:28

Speaker 19: your... Yes, just on... 44:28-44:35

You: Hey, Zoomers, can you please mute yourselves? Are we all muted? Thank you. All muted. Thanks. I'd like to actually follow up on the last two comments. Yes, very much to support what Yvonne was saying about size not mattering, because when we look at this at a wider university level, committees are comprised of very diverse things from small research institutes to much larger faculties than ours. 44:39-45:09

Speaker 18: from small research institutes to much larger faculties than ours or ours have been. And that's never been an issue that has been, oh, that there should be some sort of proportional representation because we're really looking at trying to reveal the complexity of the issues rather than just a fair representation. Having said that, I would like to also support Patrick's point on the voting, not so much to shift to the decision making, but as we see at the moment in Senate, there are significant issues about procedure associated with the absence of that voting. It doesn't mean that that voting necessarily carries weight, as you note. It is just a recommendation. But it does allow for the body to say this is a representation. We have seen over the last few years a bit of an assumption about what the room is thinking based on what the vocal people in the room are presenting. The voting provides a protection for the leaders to be able to be legitimized in their recommendations. 45:05-46:04

You: It doesn't mean that that voting necessarily carries weight, as you note. 45:39-45:43

You: It is just a recommendation. 45:43-45:45

You: But it does allow for the body to say this is a representation. 45:45-45:49

You: We have seen over the last few years a bit of an assumption about what the room is thinking based on what the vocal people in the room are presenting. 45:50-45:57

You: The voting provides a protection for the leaders to be able to be legitimized in their recommendations or to be clear about that. 45:58-46:06

Speaker 18: or to be clear about that. And I would just want to say we want to be very cautious about removing that under the guise of saying, well, we're doing all other sorts of processes. It doesn't hurt. We could all say, yeah, we vote, we don't vote. And it then provides the dean with a greater legitimacy and stops subsequent claims that, oh, that wasn't the mood in the room, depending on where you were sitting. So acknowledging the problems with Donald Trump, I still think we do have some values in a sort of an electoral system. 46:05-46:34

You: Kyo rukou, taala whalawa. 47:09-47:11

Speaker 20: Kīra koutou, tālōwha lāwa. 47:09-47:11

Speaker 20: Everyone, I'm Caroline Bruko, I'm the Associate Dean Pacific and I'm the MSL of Art History. 47:11-47:16

You: Everyone, I'm Caroline Bruko, I'm the Associate Dean Pacific, and I'm the MSL of Art History. 47:12-47:16

You: And we would like to endorse this model and also point out that we carefully worked, all four of us, and Linda, Tyler, who's been studying five of us on our submission, and made it really clear that we feel that the faculty structure should enable very, very closer and constructive working relationships for us in art history with Eland School of Fine Arts in particular. That in terms of us wanting to stay in humanities, that is because our pedagogical and research heart lies in our school. But we absolutely think, as Neil said, that we need to really think about our relationships in terms of our faculty-wide structure. And also, just saying to Jason, our academic AD, I feel like we should be engaged very closely in all of the program reconsiderations, because as a former director of the BA, program director for the BA last year, it became very clear to me, which wasn't as an academic, that it's actually at the level of the that we can make some very effective changes. We don't have to be in the same school. And in fact, we should all support each other anyway because now we're in the same faculty. So yeah, I just wanted to endorse this and thank everyone for their submissions and say that we feel very positive about our relationships in the broader sense of that. Thank you, Carolyn. 47:17-48:54

Speaker 20: And we would like to endorse this model and also point out that we carefully worked, all four of us, and Linda Tyler, Museum Studies, five of us, on our submission and made it really clear that we, We feel that the faculty structure should enable very, very closer and constructive working relationships for us in art history with Elam School of Fine Arts in particular. That in terms of us wanting to stay in humanities, that is because our pedagogical and research heart lies in our school. But we absolutely think, as Neil said, that we need to really think about our relationships in terms of our faculty-wide structure. And also, just saying to Jason, our academic AD, I feel like we should be engaged very closely in all of the program reconsiderations, because as a former director of the BA, program director for the BA last year, it became very clear to me, which wasn't as an academic, that it's actually at the level of the program that we can make some very effective changes. 47:17-48:33

Speaker 20: We don't have to be in the same school. And in fact, we should all support each other anyway, because now we're in the same faculty. So yeah, I just wanted to endorse this and thank everyone for your submissions and say that we feel very positive about our relationships in the broader sense of things. 48:34-48:51

Speaker 11: Thank you, Carolyn. 48:53-48:54

Speaker 21: the school of social practice. We're also happy about this structure. And what we said in our submission, I think it's worth just maybe just 49:04-49:15

Speaker 3: stating 49:15-49:16

Speaker 21: it here, is that across that document, nor does it talk about fiscal savings or financial imperatives. It's about good governance. And so, you know, as we look at these schools, you know, I was pleased to hear Claire talk to clarify about group services. If it is about an FTE, model around academic FTE, is it actually safe to assume then that actually group services numbers won't decrease because academic staff numbers aren't decreasing? The other thing is that, you know, if we look at sort of where we come from, from the legacy education and social work, what we're effectively doing is turning a former faculty into a school. And so, but we don't have a dedicated dean and dedicated resourcing for that. And I can see that some of the other schools are also becoming larger. So if the and I take Neil's point around lacking, you know, needing to strengthen the faculty's culture and all that. Actually, this might require an investment to actually to realize that. So my question is, is how is faculty leadership thinking about investing in that, that the all the associated service roles and tasks, none of that goes away. That all largely remains. But we're possibly losing some of that through reducing the numbers of 49:16-50:33

You: If it is about an FTE model, is it actually safe to assume then that actually group services numbers won't decrease because academic staff numbers aren't decreasing? The other thing is that if we look at sort of where we come from, the legacy of education and social work, what we're effectively doing is turning the formal faculty into a school. But we don't have a dedicated resource for that. 49:31-50:00

You: are also becoming larger. So if the intent of this is about good governance, and I take Neil's point around lacking, you know, needing to strengthen the faculty's culture and all that, actually this might require an investment to actually to realize that. So my question is, is how is faculty leadership thinking about investing in that, that the all the associate service roles and tasks, none of that goes away, that all largely remains, but we're possibly losing So how is the faculty thinking about investing in this so that we ensure that this doesn't just become making busy people busier or that maybe the key people that would be wanting to take service roles are reluctant to do so because they're not resourced in similar ways? That's a really good question, Jay. So the faculty of leadership, the faculty as a whole is completely committed to investing in making sure that the structure of this works. 50:01-51:00

Speaker 3: So 50:34-50:35

Speaker 21: how is the faculty thinking about investing in this so that we ensure that this doesn't just become 50:35-50:39

Speaker 3: making 50:39-50:40

Speaker 21: busy people busier or that maybe the key people that would be wanting to take service roles are reluctant to do so because they're not resourced in similar ways? 50:40-50:48

Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah. That's a really good question, Jay. Yeah, so the faculty of leadership, the faculty as a whole is completely committed to investing in making sure that the structure of this works because there is no good folks coming up with a model that it looks really good and satisfies what we wanted and then having it not work. You know, this process of school restructure, I think I've already said, you know, this is not the end of anything. This is only the end of the beginning, right? You know, there is so much still to be done in terms of figuring out how these schools are going to work. And those conversations are going to be made with the complete participation. People are going to be in those schools. And Mark and I have a little bit more to say about that when we talk about the next steps, but that it's absolutely clear that this is only going work. If we have good, responsible, properly resourced governance in whatever way the school decides is necessary to make it work, because it will be a real challenge. I mean, I think particularly for education and social work, because education and social practice, because yes, you say, it's a faculty that's become a school. That really is a huge challenge. So we are completely alive to the challenges that are going to be involved in that. And in no way would it be any good for me or anybody else to say, okay, this is what it's going to be. You're going to have this structure and all these resources. This is something that has to be determined from with participation from the ground up about what will be necessary to make it work. And that is what we're going to be spending the rest of the year on. 50:48-52:15

You: that it's absolutely clear that this is only going to work if we have good, responsible, properly resourced governance in whatever way the school decides is necessary to make it work. Because it will be a real challenge. I mean, I think particularly for education and social work, because education and social practice, because, yes, you say, it's a faculty that's become a school. That really is a huge challenge. So we are completely aligned to the challenges that are going to be involved in that. 51:30-52:00

You: And in no way would it be any good for me or anybody else to say, okay, this is what it's going to be. You're going to have this structure and all these resources. This is something that has to be determined from with participation from the ground up about what will be necessary to make it work. And that is what we're going to be spending the rest of the year on. Kia ora koutou. My name's Emma. I teach in drama. This is just a small clarification of the proceeds from here. 52:00-52:29

Speaker 8: Kia ora koutou. My name's Emma. I teach in drama. This is just a small clarification of the process from here. So are you saying that this is the structure 52:20-52:33

You: We're really moving into the territory of next steps, so maybe just a couple more. Is this a new question, Maxine? It's a new question. Yes, absolutely. Off you go. Cool. And it's a comment. And the comment is, while I'm a big fan of voting in participatory democracy, I also don't think personally that I should have a vote of equal weight on a decision that isn't going to affect my day-to-day work and life in the way that it affects other people. 53:02-53:29

Speaker 11: of next steps. So maybe just a couple more. 53:04-53:06

Speaker 11: Maxine, I'm sorry, I thought Maxine, that was, is this a new question, Maxine? 53:08-53:11

Speaker 12: It's a new question. 53:12-53:13

Speaker 12: Yes, 53:13-53:13

Speaker 11: absolutely. Off you go. 53:14-53:14

Speaker 12: Cool. And it's a comment. And the comment is, while I'm a big fan of voting in participatory democracy, I also don't think personally that I should have a vote of equal weight on a decision that isn't going to affect my day-to-day working life in the way that it affects other people's. And I think that's something for us to think about is that this is going to affect some people a lot more than others. 53:15-53:33

You: And I think that's something for us to think about is that this is going to affect some people a lot more than others. So I support not democracy. The question, and I apologise that this is not very tactful because I am going to talk about roles of people who are in the room. I don't understand, and maybe there's a really obvious employment law reason, but I don't understand why for social science and humanities, if I've got it right, the proposal or the plan is still to have a headship appointment proposal when those are existing. 53:29-53:59

Speaker 12: So I support not democracy. The question, and I apologise that this is not very tactful because I am going to talk about roles of people who are in the room. I don't understand, and maybe there's a really obvious employment law reason, but I don't understand why for social science and humanities, if I've got it right, the proposal or the plan is still to have a headship appointment proposal when those are existing schools that are growing somewhat. I understand why they need to be new head of school appointments for a new school of education and social practice and a new school of creative arts. But I'm really confused about why it's being proposed in social sciences and humanities to have a new headship search. 53:34-54:16

You: I understand why there needs to be new head of school appointments for like a new school of education and social practice and a new school of creating or creative arts but I'm really confused about why it's being proposed in social science and humanities to have a new headship search. Thanks Maxine. Social sciences is a special case. The reason that we are holding new headship searches for all of the schools is because this isn't just a kind of moving the disciplines around arrangement. 54:02-54:28

Speaker 11: Thanks, Maxime. Social sciences is a special case. The reason that we are holding new headship searches for all of the schools is because this isn't just a kind of moving the disciplines around arrangement. We've done that in the past in the former arts faculty. This is a new structure, The schools will have a different role to play because of the nature of that structure. It in no way implies that the people who are not in the position of being heads are doing, it does not imply that they're not doing a fantastic job. That is completely not what it's about. We have a new structure. The schools are new. They're not just a discipline or two added. And it's only fair that in every school there is a process that takes place in order to select new heads of school. We hope that lots of people will apply. We hope that the people who are doing terrific jobs apply. It does not suggest that we don't think that they're doing a great job at all. But it would be, it would not be right. It would not be right to have new heads chosen in some schools and then others where there was still a substantial change happening and substantial change in terms of what's expected, which is another thing. Because, you know, these jobs will change because of the size of the schools. And it's only fair that the people who are doing terrific jobs apply. 54:18-55:33

You: We've done that in the past in the former arts faculty. This is a new structure. The schools will have, the new schools in this model, will have a different, they'll have a different role to play because of the nature of that structure. It in no way implies that the people who are not in the position of being heads are doing, it does not imply that they're not doing a fantastic job. That is completely not what it's about. We have a new structure. The schools are new. They're not just a discipline or two added. And it's only fair that in every school there is a process that takes place in order to select new heads of school. We hope that lots of people will apply. We hope that the people who are doing terrific jobs apply. It does not suggest that we don't think that they're doing a great job at all, but it would not be right. It would not be right to have new heads chosen in some schools and then others where there was still a substantial change happening and substantial change in terms of what's expected, which is another thing, because You know these jobs will change because of the size of the schools and it's only fair that the people in those schools where the schools that Maxine mentioned it's only fair that they have the opportunity to rethink about whether or not they want to do this or not and then and then that's the best I can do I think. Thank you. Why not to is there anything else before we move to next steps or are we ready to go to next steps? Neil. Thank you. What how much weight would staff opinions have in the selection of the head of school, for example. 54:29-56:04

Speaker 11: people in those schools, where the schools of Maxine mentioned, it's only fair that they have the opportunity to rethink about whether or not they want to do this or not, and then to apply. That's the best I can do, I think. Thank you. Is there anything else before we move to next steps or are we ready to go to next steps? Neil. 55:33-55:52

Speaker 10: Thank you. How much weight would staff opinion have in the selection of the head of school? 55:54-56:03

Speaker 10: Oh, 56:04-56:04

You: Oh, okay. Great question. Yeah, that's... So what... Mark and I will talk more about this, but I'll just say now to answer the question that what we think we will do, and we'll do this very quickly, so new heads will be chosen as soon as we possibly can, and we will call on a couple of members at least from the proposed community, or from the community of the new school, to be present on the staff giving feedback to the reps who are on the selection committee and then take that to selection. We've already done it that way actually in the selection of a new head of school for this year in one of the former education and social work schools. It was a great process and we're going to be doing it again. I think we may be coming to... Are we at next stage? We're at next stage. So Mark's going to come and join for this. 56:04-57:26

Speaker 11: okay. Great question. Yeah, that's so what will to Mark and I will talk more about this, but I'll just say now to answer the question that what we think we will do and we'll do this very quickly. So new heads will be chosen as soon as we possibly can. And we will call on a couple of members at least from the from the proposed community or from the community of the new school to be present on the staff selection process. But also, I mean, actually, I'm extemporary. I'm whatever the word is extemporary. 56:05-56:33

Speaker 11: I'm sure this is what we're going to do. We will hold a process whereby candidates for the headship can present to their schools about their understanding of what's involved, what they hope to do, their sense of purpose. I understand this is always done in the former education and social work. It's a great process. We haven't done it in the former arts for quite a while, but we will be doing it. So there will absolutely be possibilities to participate through attending these presentations, giving feedback to the reps who are on the selection committee. 56:34-57:03

Speaker 11: and then take that to selection. We've already done it that way actually in the selection of a new head of school for this year in one of the former education and social work schools. It was a great process and we're going to be doing it again. I think we maybe are coming to... Are we at Next Steps? We're at Next Steps. So Mark's going to come and join for this. 57:04-57:26

Speaker 22: Mark Barrett: Kia ora koutou, Mark Barrett, tōku ingoma. I'm the Academic Transition Lead and I've been working alongside Cathy in the steering group to do the work to have got us to this point and I'm very pleased to hear people so pleased about the model. But as Cathy said, you know, what happens next is actually very, very important and actually where the rubber hits the road to a large extent. So Cathy's just been talking about the appointment of heads of schools. I just want to say that actually what we'll be doing is following the university's process and policy on doing this, which is exactly what Cass Cathy described. 57:29-58:03

You: I'm the Academic Transition Lead and I've been working alongside Cathy in the steering group to do the work to have got us to this point and I'm very pleased to hear people so pleased about the model. But as Cathy said, what happens next is actually very, very important and actually where the rubber hits the road to a large extent. So Cathy's just been talking about the appointment of heads of schools. I just want to say that actually what we'll be doing is following the university's the university's process and policy on doing this, which is exactly what Cass Cathy described. Actually ensuring that staff of the unit actually have input into the decision about who's appointed as the head of school. That's the way the university envisages the employment of heads of schools and academic heads. So that's just simply implementing the university's policy to make sure that actually staff do have a say in who's appointed as the leader of the school. So, but going through these steps, it is going to be a big task to get us from where we are now until the 1st of January next year when we've got a new school structure in place. And so the creation of an implementation team and hopefully the appointment of a project manager to work alongside that person to make sure that all of these processes run smoothly, that there's plenty of opportunity for people to be engaged in discussion is really, really important. So that's the first thing that we'll be discussing with the Dean when she's back to make sure that, with the senior executive, to pull together who might be on that team. 57:30-58:58

Speaker 22: actually ensuring that staff of the unit actually have input into the decision about who's appointed as the head of school. That's the way the university envisages the appointment of heads of schools and academic heads. So that's just simply implementing the university's policy to make sure that actually staff do have a say in who's appointed as the leader in the school. So, but going through these steps, it is going to be a big task to get us from where we are now till the 1st of January next year when we've got a new school structure. 58:03-58:33

Speaker 22: in place. And so the creation of an implementation team and hopefully the appointment of a project manager to work alongside that person to make sure that all of these processes run smoothly, that there's plenty of opportunity for people to be engaged in discussion is really, really important. So that's the first thing that we'll be discussing with the Dean when she's back to make sure that, with the senior executive, to pull together who might be on that team. The final structure, as Neil and others have pointed out, does have to go to the Vice-Chancellor to be signed off. We won't be waiting for that to happen to get on with some of these things because it's highly likely that given the level of support in this room and across the faculty for that structure that there will be no issue with that. The Vice-Chancellor is a very similar situation to the one we're talking about here. It's the Vice-Chancellor's decision as to approve that structure but she does need to consult with the University Senate. Consult, not actually vote on it. It's just putting it in front of Senate for any feedback that might come from them. One would hope, that the only people who would have anything to say about it would be the people in this faculty not the rest of the university. Then moving on some of these things are not necessarily in order but moving on to the appointment of heads of schools the intention is to call for expressions of interest across the faculty in the first half of June and to have people confirmed by August. That is a reasonable time frame gives people time for those conversations to happen in existing schools and new school structures to actually make sure people are putting up the right people, hearing from the people what they think their vision for the school is and things moving forward. And I think it gives us a real opportunity to do some of the work that the sort of chicken and egg situation we're in about when do we have these strategic conversations, but it certainly starts those conversations at the new school level. So hopefully that will take place by the beginning of August. Names of the schools need to be confirmed, and this is actually a bit of a tricky situation we're in, because we really can't put the memo to the Vice-Chancellor without having a pretty firm handle on what the name is, at least the English language name. The university policy says that the next step in the process as far as the Māori name is concerned is to go to Te Matanga Reo who's the Runanga subcommittee that is the naming subcommittee to have the conversation with them about what names might be. Some of them I'm not sure. If humanity stays humanity there's probably no reason we would want to. 58:33-01:01:03

You: The final structure, as Neil and others have pointed out, does have to go to the Vice-Chancellor to be signed off. We won't be waiting for that to happen to get on with some of these things because it's highly likely that given the level of support in this room and across the faculty for that structure that there will be no issue with that. The Vice-Chancellor is a very similar situation to the one we're talking about here. It's the Vice-Chancellor's decision as to approve that structure, but she does need to consult with the University Senate. Consult, not actually vote on it. 58:59-59:28

You: in front of Senate for any feedback that might come from them. One would hope that the only people who would have anything to say about it would be the people in this faculty, not the rest of the university. Then moving on, some of these things are not necessarily in order, but moving on to the appointment of heads of schools, the intention is to call for expressions of interest across the faculty in the first half of June and to have people confirmed by August. That is a reasonable time frame. It gives people time for those conversations to happen. 59:29-59:58

You: in existing schools and new school structures to actually make sure that people are putting up the right people, hearing from the people what they think their vision for the school is and things moving forward. And I think it gives us a real opportunity to do some of the work that the sort of chicken and egg situation we're in about when do we have these strategic conversations, but it certainly starts those conversations at the new school level. So hopefully that will take place by the beginning of August. 59:58-01:00:26

You: Names of the schools need to be confirmed, and this is actually a bit of a tricky situation we're in because we really can't put the memo to the Vice-Chancellor without having a pretty firm handle on what the name is, at least the English-language name. The university policy says that the next step in the process, as far as the Māori name is concerned, is to go to Te Māpanga Reo, who's the Runanga Subcommittee that is the naming subcommittee, to have a conversation with them about what names might be. 01:00:28-01:00:57

You: Some of them, I'm not sure. If humanity stays humanity, there's probably no reason we would want to change the name of the, in the Maori name. So I have all, I haven't written to anybody yet, but as soon as this meeting's finished, I probably will, to the people in this, particularly in education and social practice and in the creative arts. I've got two rooms booked for the week after next to start a conversation with those people about name and beginnings of a discussion. 01:00:57-01:01:27

Speaker 22: change the name of the, in the Maori name. So I haven't written to anybody yet, but as soon as this meeting's finished I probably will, to the people in this, particularly in education and social practice and in the creative arts. I've got two rooms booked for the week after next to start a conversation with those people about name and beginnings of a discussion about internal structures, but those will take some time to roll out. So we're sort of, as I say, these things are not, that will be necessary happening in a different situation where there are for example education and social practice so you might want to think about how those two branches of the school are represented on the leadership structure and similarly there's te puna wananga as part of that and how do we account for the Māori voice and Māori co-governance if you like at a school level so how is that going to be worked out which might be a different conversation to the one happening in say social sciences. 01:01:03-01:02:29

You: about internal structures, but those will take some time to roll out. So we're sort of, as I say, these things are not necessarily happening in step-wise function, but they will overlap. So that will begin the development of the internal school structures, but there wouldn't be any expectation that we would have that completely sorted out until about September, and then by the end of September be able to be in a situation where we're starting to look at deputy heads of schools and other leadership positions that might be necessary, and they will be because of the nature of the schools. As Jay pointed out, the education and social practices in a different situation where there are, for example, education and social practice. So you might want to think about how those two branches of the school are represented on the leadership structure. And similarly, there's Te Puna Wānanga as part of that. And how do we account for the Māori voice and Māori co-governance, if you like, at a school level? So how is that going to be worked out? Which might be a different conversation. 01:01:27-01:02:27

You: to the one happening in, say, social sciences. Then there are some of the next one, which is a much more operational sort of decision about making sure, and this work can start immediately, making sure, for example, that courses are assigned to the right school because that's how Fs are assigned. Fs mean resources. That's how resources flow to schools. That's how SSRs are worked out, et cetera, et cetera. So that needs to be sorted out in time for the opening of enrolment, which starts on the first to November because it's impossible to change things after students start enrolling in courses. And also making sure that academic staff are assigned to the right school, otherwise they're going to not be able to apply for leave properly and all of the things that flow from that. So there's a number of those operational things that need to be in place, which is why a project manager and an implementation team is necessary. And then, as Claire's already mentioned, the allocation of group services to schools by the beginning. 01:02:27-01:03:27

Speaker 22: Some of the next one was a much more operational sort of decision about making sure, and this work can start immediately, making sure, for example, that courses are assigned to the right school because that's how EFTS are assigned. EFTS mean resources, that's how resources flow to schools, that's how SSRs are worked out, et cetera, et cetera. So that needs to be sorted out in time for the opening of enrolment, which starts on the 1st of November because it's impossible to change things after students start enrolling in courses. 01:02:33-01:03:02

Speaker 22: and also making sure that academic staff are assigned to the right school. Otherwise, they're going to not be able to apply for leave properly and all of the things that flow from that. So there's a number of those operational things that need to be in place, which is why a project manager and an implementation team is necessary. And then, as Claire's already mentioned, the allocation of group services to schools by the beginning of December. So those are sort of just some key steps. There are lots of others. 01:03:02-01:03:32

You: of December. So those are sort of just some key steps. There are lots of others. I do think, you know, alongside this hopefully conversations about the purpose of the faculty and moving forward are going to be happening at a greater level, but they will be happening in a layered sort of a way with all of this work going on in punitive schools, the new schools and so on. So that's sort of the way we're seeing it at a very high level. There will be lots of detail coming out through this. 01:03:27-01:03:55

Speaker 22: I do think alongside this hopefully conversations about the purpose of the faculty and moving forward are going to be happening at a greater level but they will be happening in a layered sort of a way with all of this work going on in tutitive schools, the new schools and so on. So that's sort of the way we're seeing it at a very high level. There will be lots of detail coming out through this. So I'm really happy, I'm sure Cathy is, to hear any comments or questions or concerns about next at the back. 01:03:32-01:04:06

You: So I'm really happy until Kathy is to hear any comments or questions or concerns about next steps. At the back, Malcolm at the back. Thanks very much and thanks Mark and Kathy for the information. The academic head appointment policy provides also for the reappointment of a head to a second term. 01:03:56-01:04:25

Speaker 23: Thanks very much and thanks Mark and Cathy for the information. 01:04:16-01:04:19

Speaker 23: The academic head appointment policy provides also for the reappointment of a head to a second term. 01:04:20-01:04:25

You: And the process is a different one where the deans consult with members of the unit about that. Given that there is an incumbent in the School of Humanities, I'd really urge that consideration be given to the thinking about the reappointment process that's outlined in the policy that I think would be respectful to the incumbent but also to the views of the members of our academic unit. Thank you. We'll take it to Nuala. 01:04:26-01:04:55

Speaker 23: And the process is a different one where the deans consult with members of the unit about that. 01:04:26-01:04:31

Speaker 23: I'd really urge that consideration be given to the thinking about the reappointment process that's outlined in the policy that I think would be respectful to the incumbent but also to the views of the members of our academic unit. Thank you. 01:04:34-01:04:48

Speaker 11: We'll take it to Nuala. 01:04:54-01:04:55

You: I do think that one of the other things that we do think about in both the School of Humanities and Social Sciences is there are quite large disciplinary groups joining those schools and I mean we do want to be in a situation where those people are not just seen as people who are somehow added into the school because as Cathy says it is a new structure it is a new school it'll be a very different school than humanities where you've got European languages and literatures and Asian studies as part of that school so those people in those disciplines deserve some say in the leadership of this new school. So I do think we just need to think there are many sides to these stories. Sure, sure. Sorry, Mark, but the reappointment procedure does involve the dean seeking the use of members of the unit. So it would be possible to address new members of a school as part of that process. Yes, but I completely agree. I get that. 01:04:56-01:05:55

Speaker 22: I do think that one of the other things that we do need to think about in both the School of Humanities and and social sciences is there are quite large disciplinary groups joining those schools and I mean we do want to be in a situation where those people are not just seen as people who are somehow added into the school because as Cathy says it is a new structure, it is a new school. It'll be a very different school than humanities where you've got European languages and literatures and Asian studies as part of that school so those people in those disciplines deserve some say in the leadership of this new school. 01:04:56-01:05:31

Speaker 22: So I do think we just need to think there are many sides to these stories. 01:05:32-01:05:35

Speaker 23: Sure, sure. Sorry, Mark, but the reappointment procedure does involve the Dean seeking the views of members of the unit. So it would be possible to address new members of a school as part of that process. 01:05:36-01:05:51

Speaker 22: Yes, but I completely, I get that. But what you would be saying, and I've worked with Kim through this process, it's been fantastic working with her, so I know that you're going to be a part of the process. 01:05:52-01:06:01

You: What you would be saying and imply, and I've worked with Kim through this process and fantastic working with her, so I know what a fantastic head of school he has and what great support he has. But actually what we are saying in that process is nobody can see how all Asian studies could be the head of the school. And so I think there's a balance that the Dean is clearly going to need to work through with that and discuss it with the people in those roles, I think. Neil. 01:05:56-01:06:24

Speaker 22: what a fantastic head of school she is and what great support she has. But actually what we are saying in that process is nobody from CLL or Asian Studies could be the head of the school. And so I think there's a balance that the Dean is clearly going to need to work through with that and discuss it with the people in those roles, I think. Neil. 01:06:02-01:06:24

You: I know you're really bored of me. Can we confirm in this meeting that heads of school will be appointed internally and that there's no drop in from outside? Somebody blown in or something? Thanks for that, Neil. So in the end, it's the Dean's decision and she's not here right now. So it is her decision. 01:06:29-01:06:55

Speaker 10: I know you're really bored of me. I'm sorry. 01:06:29-01:06:31

Speaker 10: Can we confirm in this meeting that heads of school will be appointed internally and that there's no going to be sort of drop in from outside, somebody blown in or something? 01:06:32-01:06:45

Speaker 11: Thanks for that, Neil. So in the end, it's the Dean's decision and she's not here right now. So it is her decision. But I think we can say, Camilla, I think We can say that we hope at this point that appointment will be internal. That's the best that I can do here. But I do want to say that I'm a Deputy Dean. The Dean makes the decision. 01:06:47-01:07:13

You: But I think we can say, Camilla, I think we can say that we hope at this point that appointment will be internal. That's the best that I can do here. But I do want to say that I'm a Deputy Dean. The Dean makes the decision. Okay. Thank you. 01:06:56-01:07:15

Speaker 1: Thank you. 01:07:14-01:07:15

You: In terms of the timeline for the appointments of the deputy heads of school, can we please make sure that there's enough time for a proper handover process for any changes for that? Because I'm aware you'll be coming towards the end of the year. There's enormous amounts of processes and things that need to be passed on if there are changes in the people in those roles. And we've seen the kinds of problems that we had last year with the new faculty and people coming into the roles and not having the opportunity for proper handover processes. So can we please prioritize that as part of this? That's a very good point. And I think you're absolutely right. And I hope that, I mean, you know, we will go away and look at the timeline on the basis of any comments and concerns that come up here. I mean, that is very high level and indicative, those things. So, I mean, if we can get to that earlier, if we get heads of schools in place in August, we should be able to move relatively quickly after that. So I guess it's just a It's a matter of how fast we can make those things move, but that should be the very latest that you would expect those people to be replaced. Fiona. 01:07:28-01:08:32

Speaker 24: Deputy Heads of School. Can we please make sure that there's enough time for a proper handover process for any changes for that? Because I'm aware you'll be coming towards the end of the year. There's enormous amounts of processes and things that need to be passed on if there are changes in the people in those roles. And we've seen the kinds of problems that we had last year with the new faculty and people coming into the roles and not having the opportunity for proper handover processes. So can we please prioritise that as part of this? 01:07:32-01:08:00

Speaker 22: It's 01:08:02-01:08:02

Speaker 24: a 01:08:02-01:08:05

Speaker 22: very good point and I think that's absolutely right. And I hope that, I mean, you know, we will go away and look at the timeline on the basis of any comments and concerns that come up here. I mean, that is very high level indicative, those things. So, I mean, if we can get to that earlier, if we get heads of schools in place in August, you should be able to move relatively quickly after that. So, I guess it's just a matter of how fast we can make those things move, but it should be, that should be the very latest you would expect those people to be in place. 01:08:05-01:08:31

Speaker 22: Fiona. 01:08:32-01:08:32

Speaker 25: Kia ora koutou, I'm Fiona Jack from the Elam School of Fine Arts. This is just a follow-up to that question. I think it's a very important point and I would also add that I think it'd be great if we could formalise that handover in the sense that my experience of coming into a headship role was one where I was having to sort of ask a lot of favours for backfill and that instead of that perhaps there could be a formal overlap committee of some description or that one person's role was formally extended to overlap with the other. It's an awful situation to come into a leadership role and to have to ask for favours constantly of people who are moving on to something else. So I would just ask that we highly structure that period if possible. Thanks. 01:08:38-01:09:26

You: My experience of coming into a headship role was one where I was having to ask a lot of favours for backfill and that instead of that perhaps there could be a formal overlap with committee of some description or that one person's role was formally extended to overlap with the other. It's an awful situation to come into a leadership role and to have to ask for favours constantly of people who are moving on to something else. So I would just ask that we highly structure that period. 01:08:55-01:09:25

You: as possible. Thanks. Yeah, that's a good idea. I mean, I think that is part to go back to. I'm a very, everybody from education, social work knows I'm a structural process person. I think that's why an implementation team is actually really important to oversee all of those processes. Now, I've got Maxine on the screen. Yeah, sorry, is that okay? Yeah, go. I just wanted to add that as someone who was in associate dean role last year and who realised quite late in the game that I was being asked to extend into a transition period and other people weren't able to weren't willing to do a transition period. And there was no guidance provided on how to do a transition. So I really support Fiona's point and Lisa's point about the timing. And to have done that over the summer when there had been some professional staff changes because people left, because they were worried they weren't going to have their jobs and someone else hadn't been filled. It created a lot of additional work. So I think that somebody to actually say, this is what a transition should include would be really useful because if you haven't ever done one before, you don't actually know how you're supposed to be. 01:09:25-01:10:25

Speaker 22: Yeah, that's a good idea. I think that is part to go back to. Everybody from education and social work knows I'm a structure and process person. I think that's why an implementation team is actually really important. 01:09:26-01:09:37

Speaker 22: oversee all of those processes. Now I've got Maxine on the screen. 01:09:38-01:09:41

Speaker 12: Yeah sorry is that okay? 01:09:42-01:09:43

Speaker 22: Yeah go. I 01:09:43-01:09:45

Speaker 12: just wanted to add that as someone who was in associate dean roles last year and who realized quite late in the game that I was being asked to extend into a transition period and other people weren't able to or weren't willing to do a transition period and there was no guidance provided on how to do a transition so I really support Pyrrha's point and Lisa's point about the timing and to have done that over the summer when there had been some professional staff changes because people left because they were worried they weren't going to have their jobs and some roles hadn't been filled. It created a lot of additional work so I think that somebody to actually say this is what a transition should include would be really useful because if you haven't ever done one before you don't actually know how you're supposed to prepare for that. Thank you. 01:09:45-01:10:26

You: Thank you. 01:10:25-01:10:26

Speaker 22: Thanks Maxine. Right. Other comments or questions? Yes. Jan. 01:10:27-01:10:33

You: Thanks Maxine. 01:10:27-01:10:28

You: Right. 01:10:28-01:10:28

You: Other comments or questions? 01:10:31-01:10:32

You: Yes. 01:10:32-01:10:32

You: Jan. 01:10:33-01:10:33

You: Janne Tatod, Kogenek Gaffney Takulinwa. 01:10:35-01:10:38

Speaker 26: I have been asking this question at other levels, but not in the whole group. Are there bylaws that operate a faculty within the university or reference notes for schools and a faculty that you're operating from? 01:10:39-01:11:03

You: I have been asking this question at other levels, but not in the whole group. 01:10:40-01:10:47

You: Are there bylaws that operate a faculty within the university or reference notes for schools and a faculty that you're operating from? There are lots of huge number of policies and procedures that are in place, as most of us know. 01:10:47-01:11:14

Speaker 11: There 01:11:08-01:11:08

Speaker 22: are lots of huge number of policies and procedures that are 01:11:08-01:11:12

Speaker 11: in place, 01:11:12-01:11:13

Speaker 22: as most of us know. But certainly in terms of, I mean, yes, in terms of school operation and also in terms of the appointment of leaders of schools, there are certainly, and what support leaders are entitled to in terms of, you know, research support, financial support and so on, are clearly spelled out in university policies. And so those are the things that will guide the dean. 01:11:13-01:11:37

You: Yes, in terms of school operation and also in terms of the appointment of leaders at schools, certainly, and what support leaders are entitled to in terms of research support, financial support and so on, are clearly spelled out in university policies. And so those are the things that will guide the dean. They have to because they have the university's policies. So the answer is yes to it by and large. 01:11:17-01:11:43

Speaker 22: They have to because they have the university's policies. So the answer is yes to by and large. 01:11:37-01:11:44

Speaker 26: Is there a single... I understand there's different policies. Is there a document that we could look at as we go through this reorganisation that we can sort of look at in relationship to other faculties and the way we operate? 01:11:44-01:12:07

You: Is there a single, I understand there's different policies, is there a document that we could look at as we go through this reorganization that we can sort of look at in relationship to other faculties and the way we operate within the university? I'm looking for access. 01:11:44-01:12:11

Speaker 26: within the university. I'm looking for access. 01:12:08-01:12:10

Speaker 22: Well, there is a, I can't find anything on the Uintranet, but there is an intranet site which is actually a site set up for academic heads, for people who are heads of schools, but of course it's a public site that anybody can see, and it is a collation of all, or at least links to all of the important policies and what they're there for. 01:12:12-01:12:33

Speaker 22: So that is probably the best place where you find all of that stuff pulled together because it's there to guide people who are actually running schools. And so you can see all of the things that constrain and enable the work that they do. Oh, there was somebody coming in. Any other comments? Yeah, Jay. 01:12:33-01:12:58

You: And so you can see all of the things that constrain and enable the work that they do. Oh, somebody coming in. Any other comments? Yeah, Jay. In terms of how to school rule, middle of June is going to come very quickly. 01:12:41-01:13:10

Speaker 21: In terms of the head of school rule, The middle of June is going to come very quickly. Is there going to be any guidance around what heads of schools will be signing up to in terms of what sort of support is going to be there? There 01:13:03-01:13:21

You: Is there going to be any guidance around what heads of schools will be signing up to in terms of what sort of support is going to be there? Because, you know, I mean, there is quite a lot of work to get to that point because if you go back to the policy, the policy says, I mean, there is a role description, a university-wide role description that all heads of schools sign up to. It's the same across the whole university and it's at a generic level. But one of the things that the appointments process talks about is having to have is, I don't know if it actually was expected, but I think we would want to have it here, is a sort of a one-pager, which are faculty-specific issues that will need to be addressed in this headship's term. So some of the things, you know, they might be some very general things, like contributing actively and making sure that the school is actively engaged with strategic discussions about the direction the faculty continues to take, might be one thing. But there might be some very specific things, for specific schools that the Dean wants to put in place. So, you know, if we were thinking of a new program in basket weaving, to use this analogy, that, you know, that we were going to run from the School of Humanities, then we would want to put into the School of Humanities that the expectation would be that that program would be implemented during the term. So there is an opportunity, and that is meant to include the discussion with the school and the school's representatives in pulling that page together. So there is a bit of work to do to get us to that, to be able to just to that point, but we can still start to think about who's going to be the school. And then Jason's behind you, Jane. Jason Stevens, head of school for LDPB, Learning Development Professional Practice. With this restructure, yeah, what we have is five schools becoming one school. The former faculty of education, and social work becoming the school of education and social practice, adding applied linguistics. So we have kind of, you know, essentially a super school, right? And a head of school that's going to basically have more oversight than the former dean did for the faculty. And so what I'm wondering by way of next steps is what do you, you know, with these new super schools that we have, What is the envisioned structure underneath that? So, you know, I guess myself at my school, LDPP, you know, we have different, we have a hub structure underneath that. You know, we're all together in one building over in Commerce A. And I'm kind of, I'm really a bit anxious about our fate as a unit, if you will. Are there going to be like a unit structure? Who's going to determine, you know, what happens next, as it were? Are we going to engage in another year? 01:13:11-01:16:10

Speaker 22: is quite a lot of work to get to that point because if you go back to the policy, the policy says there is a role description, a university-wide role description that all heads of schools sign up to. It's the same across the whole university and it's at a generic level. But one of the things that the appointments process talks about is having to have, well, is, I don't know if it actually expects it, but I think we would want to have it here, is a sort of a one-pager, which are faculty-specific issues that will need to be addressed in this headship's term. So some of the things, you know, they might be some very general things, like contributing actively and making sure that school is actively engaged with strategic discussions about the direction of the faculty. 01:13:21-01:14:06

Speaker 22: the faculty continues to take might be one thing but there might be some very specific things for specific schools that the Dean wants to put in place so you know if we were thinking of a new program in basket weaving to use the Edenless analogy that you know that we're going to run from the School of Humanities then we would want to put into the School of Humanities that the expectation would be that that program would be implemented during the term so there is an opportunity and that is meant to include the discussion with the school and the school's representatives and pulling that page together. So there is a bit of work to do to get us to that, to be able to just to that point. But we can still start to think about who's going to be the head of school. And then Jason's behind you, Jay. Just up there. 01:14:06-01:14:53

Speaker 27: Jason Stevens, head of school for LDPP, Learning Development Professional Practice. With this restructure, yeah, what we have is five, schools becoming one school, the former faculty of education and social work becoming the school of education and social practice, adding applied linguistics. So we have kind of, you know, essentially a super school, right? And a head of school that's going to basically have more oversight than the former dean did for the faculty. And so what I'm wondering by way of next steps is, what happens next as it were? Are we going to engage in another year perhaps of restructuring? Like we're going to keep, you know, right, what happens within the schools? Is that going to be a whole other process? Or who's going to determine, make those decisions and when is all that going to go down? 01:14:57-01:16:21

You: perhaps of restructuring? Like, we're going to keep, you know, right, what happens within the schools? Is that going to be a whole other process? Or who's going to determine, make those decisions? And when is all that going to go down? Yeah, well, so that, I mean, that is part of the complexity, as Kathy said, if this is just the end of the beginning. And I would like to think that we will have something pretty much 90, well, the 80-20 rule, 80% there by the time we get to the end of this year. I mean, and that was, There is no predetermination on the part of the Dean at the present moment about what they should look like but she's looking for guidance about what will work best for each of the disciplines. So I think this is really a really important discussion and a very difficult one. And you raised the point Jason, exactly. There are units, there are hubs in your school, there are hubs for want of a better name in curriculum and pedagogy. Are they what becomes the structure underneath? Don't know. 01:16:10-01:18:39

Speaker 22: Yeah, well, so that, I mean, that is part of the complexity as Kathy said, this is just the end of the beginning. And I would like to think that we will have something pretty much 90, well, the 80-20 rule, 80% there by the time, we get to the end of this year. 01:16:21-01:16:37

Speaker 22: I need to go back here. 01:16:39-01:16:41

Speaker 22: Let's go to the previous slide. 01:16:43-01:16:45

Speaker 22: That development of the internal processes and position holders by the end of September is what we're talking about. 01:16:54-01:16:59

Speaker 22: If you're in education and social work, the old legacy faculty or creative arts, you're going to get an email from me this afternoon inviting representatives of the existing schools to a meeting the week after next in two meetings to start this conversation about how we do this. But I think it's only the start of the conversation and figuring out in that meeting how the, in education and social work, how the five existing heads of schools and people from applied linguistics want to engage with each other between now and then in September so that we have got to the point where we've got some idea of what the internal structure going forward is going to look like and therefore what the school leadership looks like so you know there's a very good model in the existing in School of Humanities Social Sciences and so on where they've been in existence for a while with deputies related to research PGR etc etc that might work in all of the schools but you might think in somewhere like in the old in your school there are hubs for want of a better name in curriculum and pedagogy are they what becomes the structure underneath don't know but we'll start the conversation the week after next hopefully who's that um it's helen dixon um 01:17:00-01:18:48

You: But we'll start the conversation the week after next, hopefully. Who's that? It's Helen Dixon. Helen. In your next steps, is it envisioned that there'll be some physical movement of staff, either academic or professional? I don't have an answer to that one. Actually, I don't honestly know, but I think maybe. That's clear. 01:18:39-01:19:08

Speaker 13: in your next steps is it envisioned that um there'll be some physical movement of staff either academic or professional 01:18:48-01:19:00

Speaker 22: I don't have an answer for that one. Actually, 01:19:02-01:19:04

Speaker 11: I don't honestly know, but I think maybe. Claire? Oh, Camilla. 01:19:04-01:19:11

Speaker 7: We had a meeting with Simon Neal and Tristram a week or so ago, and property services, sorry, and indicated what was coming. And they're also planning for the new building next door. 01:19:13-01:19:29

You: We had a meeting with Simon Neal and Tristram a week or so ago and property services, sorry, and indicated what was coming and they're also planning for the new building next door and we've also still got staff up in Simon Street. So there's quite a lot of thinking to do about how we bring a physical presence to the faculty with this structure in amongst the constraints of the building and property stuff that's going on. Claire, have you got anything to add to that? Thanks Camilla. No, not really, but I do expect there will be a period of co-location where we will need to partner with property services to deliver on that. So it is part of my mental list that will feed into this implementation phase and likely be something that the project manager is coordinating with the relevant faculty representatives. Thanks, Claire. Thanks, Camilla. Excellent. Marcia. Kia ora. 01:19:13-01:20:38

Speaker 7: And we've also still got staff up in Simon Street. So there's quite a lot of thinking to do about how we bring a physical presence to the faculty with this structure in amongst the constraints of the building and property stuff that's going on. Claire, have you got anything to add to that? 01:19:30-01:19:57

Speaker 15: Thanks, Camilla. 01:19:58-01:19:59

Speaker 15: No, not really, but I do expect there will be a period of co-location where we will need to partner with property services to deliver on that. So it is part of my mental list that will feed into this implementation phase and likely be something that the project manager is coordinating with the relevant faculty representatives. 01:20:00-01:20:29

Speaker 22: Thanks, Claire. Thanks, Camilla. It's Machia. 01:20:34-01:20:38

Speaker 28: Kia ora. I'm Machia, I'm in history. I just have a question about the implications of the government budget that's going to be released this afternoon. I know we're all on tenterhooks waiting for this. I'm just wondering what kind of contingency has been built in all the planning and decisions making that's going to come from this point on with regards to the fact that we might be facing some very serious, even more very serious funding and budget consequences and whether that's playing any role in the planning of what comes next here. Thanks. 01:20:38-01:21:15

You: I'm in history. I just have a question about the implications of the government budget that's going to be released this afternoon. I know we're all on tenterhooks waiting for this. I'm just wondering what kind of contingency has been built in all the planning and decision making that's going to come from this point on with regards to the fact that we might be facing some very serious, even more very serious funding and budget. 01:20:39-01:21:08

You: and whether that's playing any role in the planning of what comes next here. Thanks. 01:21:09-01:21:15

Speaker 11: Thanks, Marcia. It's so difficult to know that the only thing that we can do in these circumstances is to try to create as robust a structure as possible where we can help to think collectively and to that essentially we are in one boat as social scientists and humanities scholars in the different areas and to try to maximise the opportunities to support each other and to maintain each other. And this is one of the kind of background reasons about why to go from 11 schools plus one program to five schools. There's been a lot of debate over when we were considering models, whether we should have a larger school involving the creative arts people. This is something that was definitely talked about. 01:21:16-01:22:00

You: Thanks, Marcia. It's so difficult to know that the only thing that we can do in these circumstances is to try to create as robust a structure as possible where we can help to think collectively and to recognise that essentially we are in one boat as social scientists and humanities scholars in the different areas. 01:21:16-01:21:36

You: and to try to maximize the opportunities to support each other and to maintain each other. And this is one of the kind of background reasons about why to go from 11 schools plus one program to five schools. There's been a lot of debate over when we were considering models, whether we should have had, you know, a larger school involving the creative arts people. This is something that was definitely talked about. But in the end, I think that we've got enough collectivity here in these schools. 01:21:37-01:22:06

Speaker 11: But in the end, I think that we've got enough collectivity here in these schools to offer ourselves some protection. And also just the recognition that ultimately the money that comes comes to the faculty. So it's always at that dual level, you know, what the faculty does and what the school does. So, so Woolly answers your question because we don't know, I mean, we will suspect, but we don't know, you know, what, what they might say. And anyhow, we do know a lot of what they've already said. And it is a very worrying situation. So building in and resilience. That's really, if I could sum up the purpose of the whole thing, in fact, it's to ensure that we can be more resilient. So. 01:22:00-01:22:41

You: to offer ourselves some protection. And also just the recognition that ultimately the money that comes to the faculty. So it's always at that dual level. You know what the faculty does and what the school does. So will the answer to your question? Because we don't know, I mean, I'm really suspect, but we don't know what they might say. And anyhow, we do know what I've already said. And it is a very worrying situation. So building in robustness and resilience. That's really, if I could sum up the purpose of the whole thing. 01:22:07-01:22:36

You: I think we also need to hold the university to account here and we've heard, and I completely believe it, the Vice-Chancellor, say on numerous occasions that the university is always committed to being a comprehensive university and some of the feedback, for example, around whether we created or the larger School of Performing and Creative Arts was around how would that lessen the visibility of of arts in the university and the fact that we need to make sure that's very prominent. So we have sort of thought about all of those things and I do think in the end it will be the university's, probably the university's budget that is affected by the budget decisions that happened this afternoon. We need to make sure, and the Vice-Chancellor will be making sure that we've got as much comprehensiveness as we can possibly retain and I think that's really important. And you know, we have heard talk, you have all heard it, a $45 million budget hole that the university is working towards and the different ways in which there are three, I can't remember them all now, but three ways of doing that, some of which is increasing the number of students internationally by the Dean's been in China and got sick as a result. And other things like that are going on to try to make up those $315 million changes in the budget for next year. So this is not why we're doing this school restructure, as Jay pointed out. 01:22:42-01:24:06

Speaker 22: I think we also need to hold the university to account here and we've heard, and I completely believe it, the Vice-Chancellor say on numerous occasions that the university has always committed to being a comprehensive university and some of the feedback, for example, around whether we created and I think that's really important. And you know, we have heard talk, you have all heard it, a $45 million budget hole that the university is working towards and the different ways in which there are three, I can't remember them all now, but three ways of doing that, some of which is increasing the number of students internationally by the deansmen in China and got sick as a result. And other things like that are going on to try to make up those three $15 million changes in the world. 01:22:43-01:24:00

Speaker 22: the budget for next year. So this is not why we're doing the school restructure, as Jay pointed out. It is about good governance, which of course also is about prudent for school management, just because that is what good governance is partly about. 01:24:00-01:24:13

You: It is about good governance, which of course also is about pre-fiscal management, just because that is what good governance is partly about. 01:24:06-01:24:13

Speaker 29: Yes. Just on the topic of collectivity and hanging out, and I have started a creative pedagogies network which is an inclusive network aimed at creating connectivity and anyone who's interested in working with the concept of imagination and creativity in their courses we're having a free lunch on Thursday June 12th between 11 and 1 in the music in the old music library and you're all welcome just it's a great opportunity just to chat and talk and think about how we can create connections even though maybe we're in different We can have alliances, collaborations, co-supervisions, research connections. It would be great to have a chance to hang out and talk together. 01:24:18-01:25:12

You: Just on the topic of collectivity and hanging out, David Lyons and I have started a Creative Pedagogies Network, which is an inclusive network aimed at and their research connections. So yeah, it'll be great to have a chance to hang out and talk and for maungatanga together. That's June the 12th, 11 to 1. We'll have some, it's just often these things fall in the gaps, so there will be some communications around that for everyone, but yeah, look out for them. Thanks very much. I think we may be done at this point. Are we done at this point? I think so. Oh, no. Is that anything? Yeah. 01:24:25-01:25:35

Speaker 1: That's June 12th, 11-1. It's just often these things fill in the gaps so there will be some communications around that for everyone. 01:25:13-01:25:24

Speaker 11: Look out for them. Thanks very much. 01:25:25-01:25:28

Speaker 11: Are we done at this point? I think so. Is that Ethan? Yes. 01:25:30-01:25:35

You: Sorry, not done quite yet. My name's Ethan Cochran. I'm in anthropology. I have just kind of an interesting comment to make, and that is that at our meeting today, there's been discussion of accountability and democracy and voting and representation. And we know the dean is accountable to the D.C., but the dean is not accountable to us. 01:25:44-01:26:06

Speaker 30: Sorry, not done quite yet. My name is Ethan Cochran. I'm in anthropology. I have just kind of an adjacent comment to make, and that is that at our meeting today, there's been discussion of accountability and democracy and voting and representation. 01:25:44-01:25:59

Speaker 30: We know the dean is accountable to the VC, but the dean is not accountable to us. And I find that kind of strange, and I understand that's the position, but one way to increase the veneer of accountability would be to have more faculty meetings. 01:26:00-01:26:15

You: And I find that kind of strange, and I understand that's the position, but one way to increase the veneer of accountability would be to have more faculty meetings. More than two a semester. I hope that is a consideration going forward. Oh look, I completely agree. Let me say why we have so few faculty meetings. It's because of the size of the room. Now in fact, this room is in no way full, but the number of people on the guest list is huge. So that has been, you probably won't believe me because it's such a A banal reason. But it is the reason that we have not had another faculty meeting. So we have them scheduled, I think, about every two months to the end of the year. And the Dean's EA is putting them in for, you know, next year every month. So we can book a room, because obviously we're not going to overfill the room. I don't know why more people don't want to come and spend an hour and a half at a faculty meeting on a Thursday morning, but, you know, it's fine because we can fit you all in one room. So I couldn't agree more. The alternative is like going online, which I don't think we want to do. 01:26:06-01:27:06

Speaker 11: More than two a semester. And I hope that is a consideration going forward. 01:26:16-01:26:21

Speaker 11: Oh, look, I completely agree. Let me say why we have so few faculty meetings. It's because of the size of the room. Now, in fact, this room is in no way full, but the number of people on the The guest list is huge. So that has been, you probably won't believe me because it's such a banal reason, but it is the reason that we have not had another faculty meeting. So we have them scheduled, I think, about every two months to the end of the year and the Dean's EA is putting them in for, you know, next year every month. So we can book a room because obviously we're not going to overfill the room. I don't know why more people don't want to come and spend an hour and a half at a faculty meeting on a Thursday morning, but, you know, it's fine because we can fit you all in one room. So I couldn't agree more. The alternative is like going online, which I don't think we want to do, do we? No. So, yeah. So we are definitely going to have more faculty meetings and that is the only reason we have not had them. Okay. Are we? Okay. So I want to say thank you very much to everybody for talking in what felt like an open way about this. We really appreciate it. You're going to be hearing a lot more from us because there are many more There is going to be a lot to say and a lot to figure out and a lot to work out over the next few months and I very much look forward to everybody participating in that. Kim, other business. 01:26:21-01:27:45

You: So we are definitely going to have more faculty meetings and that is the only reason we have no other. Okay. Are we okay? So I want to say thank you very much to everybody for talking in what felt like an open way about this. We really appreciate it. You're going to be hearing a lot more from us because there are many more. Kim, is your hand up? Oh, other business. Okay. So just let me finish. 01:27:08-01:27:36

You: There is going to be a lot to say and a lot to figure out and a lot to work out over the next few months and I very much look forward to everybody participating in that. Kim, other business. Kia ora koutou. Thank you very much for this fantastic discussion. My name is Kim Phillips. I'm the director of Humanities. I've just got an item of other business. The news didn't arrive in time for me to get it to Camilla when we were doing our congratulations earlier in this meeting. 01:27:36-01:28:05

Speaker 19: Kia ora koutou. Thank you very much for this fantastic discussion. My name is Kim Phillips, I'm the Head of Humanities and I've just got an item of other business. 01:27:48-01:27:57

Speaker 19: The news didn't arrive in time for me to get it to Camilla when we were doing our congratulations earlier in this meeting, but I heard overnight from Professor Celina Tussitala-Marsh that she has been made the inaugural Commonwealth Poet Laureate. This is obviously an extraordinary accolade for Celina and for our faculty. 01:28:00-01:28:29

You: I heard from Professor Celina Tititala-Marsh that she has been made the inaugural Commonwealth Poet Laureate. 01:28:06-01:28:15

You: So this is obviously an extraordinary accolade for Celina and for our faculty. 01:28:23-01:28:29

Speaker 19: We'll hear more, I'm sure. There'll be press releases and so on. But her position actually starts on the 1st of June. So it's all coming up 01:28:30-01:28:38

You: We'll hear more, I'm sure, there'll be press releases and so on. 01:28:31-01:28:34

You: But her position actually starts on the 1st of June. So it's all wonderful. Thank you very much, Kim, and huge congratulations to Selena. I'm now going to ask Leanne to lead of that with a kāraki. As we open, we shall close. So please join me to say our closing kāraki. 01:28:34-01:29:02

Speaker 11: very quickly. Thank you very much, Kim, and huge congratulations to Selena. I'm now going to ask Leanne to lead us out with a kāra kia and wad. 01:28:38-01:28:46

Speaker 5: Tēnā nō tātou katoa. Ko te tūmanako. Kia pai te toinga o tōkoutoura. As we open, we shall close. So please join me To say our closing karakia, nā reira, ka tākina te karakia, unuhia, unuhia, unuhia ki te uru tapu nui, kia wātea, kia māma, te nākau, te tīnana, te wairua i te arataka tū, koea rā e rongo, whakairia ake ki runga kia tīnana. 01:28:50-01:29:25

You: Te karakia, unuhia, unuhia, unuhia ki te uru tapu nui. Kia wātea, kia mama, te nākau, te tínana, te wairua i te arataka tū. Koia rā e rongo, whakairia ake, ki runga kia tínana. 01:29:04-01:29:25

You: Huie taaike. Kia ora tatou. 01:29:27-01:29:30

Speaker 5: Фуіе таа и ке, кеору та та. 01:29:27-01:29:30

You: I don't even though 01:29:54-01:30:04